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Old 09-18-2010, 10:03 PM   #21
Busterdogs
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Get Hypothermia (Most cases occur when the temperature is in the 50's)

Hawk
That one I can personally testify to in September on the NPT ...
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:07 PM   #22
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Try willpower on diarrhea.
Been there too. Hemorrhoids as well (separate occasions luckily!).

@ Busterdogs: I feel you. I turned back on my first attempt at Marcy because while I knew I had the strength to push on from Indian Falls to the summit, I might not have it to descend (due to work the night before and the five hour drive, I was up and going for 20 hours at that point). And getting to the top of a mountain is only half the battle. So I did the smart thing and turned back. I waited two years to tackle Marcy but I did it. I guess I'll have to have the same fortitude for the NPT!

And yea, it was chilly the one night we were out, high 30's my thermometer read, no doubt since we were lakeside, but we had a light and medium fleece each, along with bag liners, 35 deg. bags and bivy's.
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Old 09-18-2010, 10:16 PM   #23
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Well, no worries, you'll get it done. I was so proud of myself when I finished solo I cried.
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:46 AM   #24
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Well, no worries, you'll get it done. I was so proud of myself when I finished solo I cried.
I can only imagine!

One last thing, for those who can't shake the trail shivers, try some basic winter warming tricks like eating protein before bed, exercise before getting in your bag, and my favorite, boil water, put it in a nalgene and take that into your bag with you. I start with it at my chest and let it sit at my feet when I'm ready to sleep.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:23 AM   #25
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I can only imagine!

One last thing, for those who can't shake the trail shivers, try some basic winter warming tricks like eating protein before bed, exercise before getting in your bag, and my favorite, boil water, put it in a nalgene and take that into your bag with you. I start with it at my chest and let it sit at my feet when I'm ready to sleep.
If you put 2 Nalgenes into fresh socks and then your boots and into a plastic bag and stuff then at the foot of your bag it will keep you warm and you won't have to get into hard, cold boots the next morning. That's posted somewhere here from a few years back.

However, make sure your tent is well ventilated or the hot water will cause more condensation which will drip and get get everything damp.

Hawk

(BTW one of the basics of winter camping is to always have at least THREE people.)

Hawk
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:31 AM   #26
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I can only imagine!

One last thing, for those who can't shake the trail shivers, try some basic winter warming tricks like eating protein before bed, exercise before getting in your bag, and my favorite, boil water, put it in a nalgene and take that into your bag with you. I start with it at my chest and let it sit at my feet when I'm ready to sleep.
If you do this, make sure you you crack open the nalgenes a couple of times in the first half hour or so to let the built up air pressure escape. Otherwise, your nalgenes will leak, and a wet sleeping bag will make you colder in the long run.

Or you can use the plastic bag method hawk suggested.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:44 AM   #27
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Right again. But I choose to hike in the winter alone, full aware of the high risk gamble that it is.

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(BTW one of the basics of winter camping is to always have at least THREE people.)

Hawk
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:23 PM   #28
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I can only share that my four-legged furry nalgene also works pretty good, although he does sometimes "leak," unfortunately sometimes within 100 ft of a water source ... :-)
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Old 09-19-2010, 01:55 PM   #29
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I can only share that my four-legged furry nalgene also works pretty good, although he does sometimes "leak," unfortunately sometimes within 100 ft of a water source ... :-)
Hahaha! Sounds like your dog needs a lesson in leave no trace!
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:50 PM   #30
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Hawk which SFG did you train?
Mostly SEALS, some Rangers and also some foreign units.
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Old 09-21-2010, 09:24 PM   #31
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Oh, when you said Special forces I thought you meant Green Berets. Do you remember which Ranger battalions it was? I am just curious if you may have trained anyone I served with.
Special Forces fits quite a few units. SEALS, Rangers, etc.

Didn't train any Battalions, it was more hand picked troops who were going to be used for special ops or required a readiness that might take them into extreme conditions. Also trained some Israeli soldiers as well as British Special Air Services (SAS).

When, where did you serve? Combat?

Hawk
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Old 09-22-2010, 08:50 AM   #32
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for those who can't shake the trail shivers, try some basic winter warming tricks like eating protein before bed, exercise before getting in your bag, and my favorite, boil water, put it in a nalgene and take that into your bag with you. I start with it at my chest and let it sit at my feet when I'm ready to sleep.
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2) No profanity, personal attacks, derogatory remarks, deliberate goading (trolling) or taunting will be tolerated. It is understood that, at times there will be disagreements and dissenting opinions. We only ask that they be done in a civil, reasoned and rational manner.

You want to talk about some so called "trail shivers"...OK. Perhaps I dont fully comprehend the definition of these so called trail shivers, but let me try, and explain mine.

A few years back in late April we did the loop from Perkins Clearing. Pillsbury, Sampson, WCL, Cedar and out. As we approached the West Canada Lakes, we found ourselves in 4' of snow...that's right, 4 feet...(without snowshoes) Ouch.....now that was damn painful, and required an overabundance of strength, skill and determination considering we were carrying about 65lb. each. Drenched with sweat, we soon found ourselves "shivering" beyond imagination once we hit the lean-to and dumped our packs. Windy as all hell, lake frozen, snow flying, and soaked from head to toe. It was like someone injected ice crystals into our veins.

The solution however, was simple. We immediately stripped from the wet clothes, got into thermals (NEVER GO BACKPACKING WITHOUT THEM) eg: Wool hat, turtleneck, LJ's top & bottom, wool socks, moccasins, and fired up some boiling hot fluids, followed by a very hot meal. Now what am I missing.....?

If your dry, dressed properly, and have the necessary provisions... you shouldn't get any so called trail shivers.

Bluesman

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Old 09-22-2010, 09:57 AM   #33
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Let's keep this civil folks...
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:37 PM   #34
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No, not in Georgia.

And I'm talking in the 70's, not recent.

Hawk
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:52 AM   #35
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Can we nudge this thread back on to the topic, please?
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:03 PM   #36
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You want to talk about some so called "trail shivers"

If your dry, dressed properly, and have the necessary provisions... you shouldn't get any so called trail shivers.
Bluesman
That's funny! They felt real, so I wouldn't characterize them as so called. With few exceptions around some titanium products in my face, my nerve endings work. It's a bit of stretch to say I wasn't prepared; it's impossible to plan for every scenario.

As an illustration, I was totally dry, in my lovely little Patagucci long-johns, in my 35 deg bag, all inside my REI bivvy on a dry lean to floor. Bottom line is I was borderline shivering. There could be a variety of other reasons I got cold and couldn't warm up. Maybe I was tired or sick? Maybe my metabolism had slowed? Who knows.

Anyway, I assessed the situation & decided town was a one day detour out of the way. I could check the forecast & buy a supplemental bag liner.

The lessons here are: 1.) The NPT in the ever-damp Adirondacks are susceptible to big temperature swings, even in early Sept. That's a consideration for other hikers reading this stuff & planning their own adventure. 2.) If something doesn't feel right & you can "fix" it, there is no dishonor in doing so, even if you lose a day in your plans.

So the story is:
I got pretty cold, in early Sept., on the NPT.
I fixed it.
I was on my way again.
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:13 PM   #37
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The lessons here are: 1.) The NPT in the ever-damp Adirondacks are susceptible to big temperature swings, even in early Sept. That's a consideration for other hikers reading this stuff & planning their own adventure. 2.) If something doesn't feel right & you can "fix" it, there is no dishonor in doing so, even if you lose a day in your plans.
Both great pieces of advice. #1 goes for year round anytime youre in the mountains, as far as I'm concerned. I've seen my thermometer swing 40+ degrees between daytime and night (elevation and terrain depending of course). And #2 is one of the best advantages of the mail drop system. Too cold? Get an extra fleece mailed up. Too hot? Send one home.
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:25 AM   #38
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Now what am I missing.....?
Empathy and the knowledge that what worked for you once in your situation will not necessarily work for everyone in every circumstance, particularly when many situations are so much more dire that what you experienced.

It is good that your discomfort was resolved so easily, but the fact that it was resolved so easily might indicate it was not that severe to begin with, if you define severe as being difficult to resolve.

Everyone who has difficulty on the trail is not necessarily unprepared or a moron. Sometimes you can do everything right and still end up with a bad situation or even a tragedy. There are few real-life situations where, "All you had to do was..." solves everything, every time.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:18 PM   #39
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David Boomhower

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David Boomhower, who became lost while attempting to hike the NPT, sat and waited for 50 days for help before succumbing to death. (He also did some really stupid things, but that's besides the point- help can be a long time in coming regardless.)
.
I was able to read some portion of David's journal via web a few years ago. Yes, certainly he did make mistakes, but what stuck with me was the fact that he wasn't any worse prepared than many other people on the trail. The accumulation of mistakes was what killed him. Also, a lot his his problem was Giardia ("Beaver fever"), which produced severe debility so that he was dizzy when he tried to stand up and couldn't proceed. Not to be underestimated, as you well know. Judgment declines concurrent with debility.

Walt
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Old 10-10-2010, 09:03 PM   #40
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David Boomhower did not suffer from giardia.He was over his head and lacking proper diet.I hate to quote John Rambo here,but your mind is your best weapon and that is how you prepare.Allright maybe i like that.
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