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Old 08-05-2010, 02:04 PM   #61
WinterWarlock
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Reminds me...

Glenn's last comment reminded me...somewhere I saw a post about the sit-in canoe with double blade vs. kneeling or seated with single blade...can't find it now. Anyway - I'm looking for a solo canoe, and don't really want the sit-on-floor type. Any suggested boats I look at, besides my current list:

Wenonah Argosy (found a used one for sale)
Swift Osprey (also saw a Mattawa for sale, which seems very interesting to me)
Bell Merlin II


I've looked at the PB site, but the RapidFire seems out of my price range at this point.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:09 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by WinterWarlock View Post
I've looked at the PB site, but the RapidFire seems out of my price range at this point.
PBW has the new 16' Shadow out now. I'll be up there next week and I want to give it a "look see" .......
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:19 PM   #63
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PBW has the new 16' Shadow out now. I'll be up there next week and I want to give it a "look see" .......
I bet she's a beaut, but sadly, even pricier than the RF.

Does anyone have any experience - solo or otherwise - with the Swift Mattawa? It has great reviews on paddlers.net...
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by WinterWarlock View Post
Glenn's last comment reminded me...somewhere I saw a post about the sit-in canoe with double blade vs. kneeling or seated with single blade...can't find it now.
Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=13843
I've been surprised at the number of makers that seem to market their solos at double-blade users but quite frequently adapt them, on request, for single-blade paddling.
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Old 08-05-2010, 02:36 PM   #65
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Is this what you were looking for?
http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=13843
I've been surprised at the number of makers that seem to market their solos at double-blade users but quite frequently adapt them, on request, for single-blade paddling.
That's the one - thanks.
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:00 PM   #66
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Matawa and others

Swift's Matawa is a neat little tandem, but the last word is the operative one. It is a constant flare hull and too wide at the center, solo, paddling station to allow any but the very rangy to plant a vertical paddleshaft. Note that is both rail and max 36" at center.

I know how many cringe when numbers are referenced, but the three widest solo boats are Bell's Rockstar, is 27" at rails, 31" max, Nova's SuperNova 31" at rails 32" max and Wenonah's Wilderness 27" rails, 31" max beam. An extra 9" at the rails and 5" overall beam is a SIGNIFICANT difference. One can paddle it Canadian Style; heeled down with a shorter paddle but that only works if travel is optional to enjoying a day afloat. Shaq couldn't paddle it sit and switch, or kneeling either.

On another topic, the Swift Pack Canoes are high sided variants of the Yost designed Adirondack 12 and 13.5. They claim significant rocker and tumblehome, but that is not revealed by the tape measure. They are molded in a flared mold, then pulled in via shortened thwarts to create some tumblehome. That action lessens rocker. [Spread a first class envelope along the top; rocker will be generated along the bottom. Decreasing the spread lessens the rocker. Same song with open top hulls.]

The Placid hulls have more tumblehome; it is easier to use vertical paddle strokes in them. Since the Swifts are infused hulls and use the infused rail system developed by Placid, it seems one should compare them w/ Pb's side by side. Both are built by masters of the infusion process. They are lighter and stronger than hand laminated hulls and the voids that are a part of every hand lamination are completely gone.

Pb's 12 and 13 have finer lines, hence track a little better than the corresponding Swift 12 and 13.5 and with more rocker, turn a little faster too. Swifts slightly lighter weight is a function of foam cored bottom and a 4oz polyester outer layer as contrasted to Pb's 6.3 oz carbon.

Pb offers six different seat options if Joe hasn't dropped the cane one. Swift has their kayak seat, complete with back rest. Pb tried different back rests early on. They were discontinued because, while fine for reading, photography and fishing, they inhibited the torso rotation necessary to paddling. Yost rather pithily points out that the Swift comfort fit seat fits him, and the rest of the super-sized crowd. Pb needs to develop a wide-ride seat seat pan or more widely promote their Pb Paddler's Diet Plan.

Placid builds only with the tricky two-tone gel coat, Swift options that, so with poly rather than the optional Carbon outer and a single clear spray, the Swifts reach a lower price point. So it goes; two or four fine boats for the same and different markets.

Last edited by charlie wilson; 08-06-2010 at 07:34 PM..
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Old 08-05-2010, 04:07 PM   #67
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Thanks Charlie - that helps rule out the Mattawa as a solo...might be a good tandem for my son and I.

Still not sure how I could justify the extra cost of the PB, but I guess if I compare the Shearwater to the Shadow, it's only a $350 difference. I guess the big difference would be the ability to find a used Shearwater and save some money....
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