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Old 06-23-2021, 08:11 PM   #1
montcalm
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Emerald Ash Borer

I didn't see a specific thread to this, so here goes.


Rochester area is absolutely decimated. Last year was bad, but I see so many dead trees this year, all Ash, all have holes related to the borer. I did find one very healthy Ash today that looked as though it had been attacked but perhaps generated some resistance. I could literally see dozens of other dead Ash in the vicinity, so the borer is still around. A few trees are still hanging on with some foliage on the lower branches, but I think they'll be dead by next year.

How is the rest of the state doing, specifically the Adirondacks?
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Old 06-23-2021, 09:48 PM   #2
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7253.html

It spreads basically two ways. On its own slowly, and through campers bringing infected wood from other states and areas, rapidly. The USDA monitors the treatment of firewood which needs to be heated in a kiln to a certain temperature for a certain amount of time. Of course thoroughly kiln dried wood is the best. There are strong fines for violations, but the problems very few get caught. The Emerald Ash Borer decimated the ash wood industry in Michigan which led the country in ash production and in other states. The industry lost billions of dollars in revenue because of the invasive species from China which arrive in dunnage. Hence the requirement to heat treat pallets and dunnage. Chemicals were used initially but they proved to be more harmful. Please. Do not bring firewood from other locations unless it shows the USDA insignia and is treated.
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Old 06-23-2021, 10:17 PM   #3
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https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_fo...stribution.pdf

Good map here of Ash distribution. Actually much higher than I thought it was, especially in LO floodplain.

Other than the pertinent environmental impacts, it's become a real liability for home owners who need to have the trees removed.

Ash is pretty lacking in the Adirondacks, so probably not much issue. I seem to recall seeing them in the western Adirondacks, especially in the fall when they are easy to see. Also recall seeing the purple traps all over in that area.
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Old 06-23-2021, 10:58 PM   #4
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We have a few Ash trees around the house here in Keene. All are doing well; the EAB is not yet here.

It's certainly a problem. The "campground solution" is obvious. Campgrounds need to increase prices to include the cost of local firewood supplied by the campground. This is stupidly easy. If there is "free" wood at the campground, no one would bother to haul their own from outside the area. But incredibly, no one is doing this; not the state, nor any private campgrounds I have heard of.
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Old 06-25-2021, 02:33 PM   #5
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We have a few Ash trees around the house here in Keene. All are doing well; the EAB is not yet here.

It's certainly a problem. The "campground solution" is obvious. Campgrounds need to increase prices to include the cost of local firewood supplied by the campground. This is stupidly easy. If there is "free" wood at the campground, no one would bother to haul their own from outside the area. But incredibly, no one is doing this; not the state, nor any private campgrounds I have heard of.
I have had a firewood business for years. I sell USDA approved kiln dried bundled hardwoods and some bulk. One customer in Ohio buys over ten thousand bundles a year from me year round. It is a campground that includes the bundles in the daily price. I have a woodlot in southern PA and moved over 50 thousand bundles last year. I have a colleague in the Southern Tier
of NY who sells over a million bundles a year. We have 60 acres of ash trees which died so we are harvesting them for firewood. I sell wood from Ohio to Connecticut. I always enjoy getting back to the Addacks and serenity.
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Old 06-25-2021, 08:01 PM   #6
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I have had a firewood business for years. I sell USDA approved kiln dried bundled hardwoods and some bulk. One customer in Ohio buys over ten thousand bundles a year from me year round. It is a campground that includes the bundles in the daily price. I have a woodlot in southern PA and moved over 50 thousand bundles last year. I have a colleague in the Southern Tier
of NY who sells over a million bundles a year. We have 60 acres of ash trees which died so we are harvesting them for firewood. I sell wood from Ohio to Connecticut. I always enjoy getting back to the Addacks and serenity.
Excellent work! Thanks. More campgrounds should emulate that campground in Ohio.
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Old 06-24-2021, 06:20 AM   #7
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My woods and the surrounding look like it is still winter in the canopy with all the greenless treetops. Very sad.
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Old 06-24-2021, 07:59 AM   #8
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We're also having a bad gypsy moth year. They seem to prefer maples from what I can see.

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Old 06-27-2021, 10:20 AM   #9
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We're also having a bad gypsy moth year. They seem to prefer maples from what I can see.
The gypsies are consuming the Basswoods in my woods, also Apple.
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Old 06-28-2021, 03:05 PM   #10
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The gypsies are consuming the Basswoods in my woods, also Apple.
Oswego County: GMs are going after oak, maple, aspen, birch, alder, and beech. Some sections of woods have taken a beating. It's also very dry and hot, so I imagine defoliated trees and shrubs are really stressed
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Old 06-25-2021, 08:03 AM   #11
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another way they are spreading is from the log tucks taking ash to the mills.

My woods down here below Ithaca like Duck tape said looks like winter between that an the gypsy moths. They are in all our trees
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Old 06-28-2021, 02:48 PM   #12
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another way they are spreading is from the log tucks taking ash to the mills.
Yes , it's a messy business, then after unloading the logs they get run through a debarker and everything goes flying and the log truck goes back down the road bouncing debris off the frame rails.
I don't remember what thread it was but this was discussed on here years ago when the EAB firewood rules first took affect.
The 50 mile radius for firewood could be seen as an effective way of spreading the problem , in one hour you could move the problem from Utica to Old Forge , just as an example.
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Old 06-28-2021, 08:55 PM   #13
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Yes , it's a messy business, then after unloading the logs they get run through a debarker and everything goes flying and the log truck goes back down the road bouncing debris off the frame rails.
I don't remember what thread it was but this was discussed on here years ago when the EAB firewood rules first took affect.
The 50 mile radius for firewood could be seen as an effective way of spreading the problem , in one hour you could move the problem from Utica to Old Forge , just as an example.
Most state DEC's figure that if it is in the state already then it's too late to prevent it from starting but hopefully they can "contain" it within fifty mile radius. The purple bag traps tell them where the invasive species are. I sell kiln dried wood at a very reasonable price by selling thousands of bundles and they retail it for around $6.50 to $7.00 a bundle. My wood gets at least 250 degrees f for 30 some hours where kiln treated wood is only heated enough to kill the larvae. My friend in the Southern Tier sells "Bundle of Warmth" and used to supply all the Lowes stores east of the Mississippi. He was one of the first in the country to bear the USDA stamp and reg.number. Kiln dried wood has many advantages which I am not going to "bore" you with here. But the EAB has decimated the ash wood business in this country. Sad.
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Old 06-26-2021, 09:14 AM   #14
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The campground will sell more bundles to the patron if they want. Some buy lots of them because it is great wood. No other firewood is sold in the campground except mine and they are not allowed to bring their own. The price is reasonable and most are "happy campers".
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Old 06-26-2021, 10:03 AM   #15
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So it's been a while since I've been to a DEC campground, but things are/were a bit similar.

You weren't allowed to bring wood, and when you checked in you were asked and I think they may have even checked, at least at some places.

There was firewood you could buy at the campground, which was rather expensive but you were allowed to bring wood back in provided it was in a bag or local. I don't recall any checks after check-in, but if you think about it, who is going to drive 40 miles away to go get firewood after they've checked into their campsite? So anything you bring back is going to be local or treated.

One of the last trips I did and stayed at a campground, I think it was Rollins Pond, there was a trailer that would drive around the campground a couple times a day to sell wood. It was either local or treated wood - might have been the stuff they sold through the campground and they had some kind of contract with a local supplier.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:39 AM   #16
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So it's been a while since I've been to a DEC campground, but things are/were a bit similar.

You weren't allowed to bring wood, and when you checked in you were asked and I think they may have even checked, at least at some places.
Must just depend on the site - for instance looking at North South Lake in the Catskills (which is DEC) they allow you to bring wood as long as it's within 50 miles. There is a form that you are supposed to carry to show if asked where it came from (that you fill out) if it's personal supply (like someone bringing it from the supply they use at home for a fireplace).
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:58 AM   #17
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Must just depend on the site - for instance looking at North South Lake in the Catskills (which is DEC) they allow you to bring wood as long as it's within 50 miles. There is a form that you are supposed to carry to show if asked where it came from (that you fill out) if it's personal supply (like someone bringing it from the supply they use at home for a fireplace).
I actually think that's still the case...

they might have asked us that, in which case it's considered "local" wood. Not sure how they might actually track that so IMO it's a stupid decision to allow it.
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Old 06-27-2021, 04:06 PM   #18
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I actually think that's still the case...

they might have asked us that, in which case it's considered "local" wood. Not sure how they might actually track that so IMO it's a stupid decision to allow it.
I was thinking that you had to provide information when registering for the site (like your address) - so just by that they would have an idea if you were within the radius. If someone saw that you had wood along and you were beyond that, then they could logically question it.
Though in any case it would seem that those bugs aren't going to survive being burned anyway (if they don't survive the drying process which is bound to be a lower temperature so the wood doesn't actually burn).
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Old 06-27-2021, 05:13 PM   #19
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I was thinking that you had to provide information when registering for the site (like your address) - so just by that they would have an idea if you were within the radius. If someone saw that you had wood along and you were beyond that, then they could logically question it.
Though in any case it would seem that those bugs aren't going to survive being burned anyway (if they don't survive the drying process which is bound to be a lower temperature so the wood doesn't actually burn).
Right - I was thinking they'd do the same, but no experience. I know if you bring "local" wood you're supposed to provide documentation of where you got it. I thought perhaps not allowing any wood IN on check-in might be a better, practical system but I was misleading on my first response in that they will allow wood in if it is within a certain radius.

I was thinking about the other potential issue and that's people TAKING wood from campgrounds. Not all that wood they sell is treated so people could be transporting this way because they don't want to leave wood behind. Honestly they shouldn't let you, but I know no where I've stayed even mentioned this let alone check vehicles.

So anyway, I think this really reinforces the only real way to control this is via the campground. Like TCD says, if they sell treated wood and you can only get their wood, then even if you take it, it should be no issue elsewhere.


Once the wood is burned, yeah it's not going to spread EAB. It's the time in between when it is sitting on the ground or in your car that the eggs or larvae could escape in a new place.
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Old 06-26-2021, 11:11 AM   #20
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Anyway, guess the point to my rambling above is that people going to campgrounds are probably not a big issue, seen as how most, if not all, have some kind of policy in place to try to reduce the problem.

The issue, as I see it, is probably the unregulated campers i.e. roadside sites, boat access sites, etc that are FCFS where there is really no way to check what kind of wood people are using. Most people aren't dragging a cord of wood, or any wood, out to backcountry sites. It's probably also property or primitive hunting camp owners who seasonally camp on their properties and may transport their own wood. Again, hard to regulate and the only thing you can do is try to educate and hope people listen.

I know the message has been out for a long time, and to most it makes sense, but I'm sure some see it as a "racket" to get you to buy local wood in tourist areas.
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