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Old 05-23-2022, 05:49 PM   #41
montcalm
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I hope someone is willing to pursue this. And that towns incentivize this. I live just outside the southeastern edge of Blue Line. I wanted move inside the Park. But the rental units (for living, not vacationing) were very limited, plus Internet was an issue, as I work from home. So I ended up moving to another place just outside the Blue Line. If there were more alternatives, I'd love to move further north. Something like you describe could work for someone like me.
Sorry I can't let this go... it's just...


So you want towns to implement programs to provide housing for you so you can work remotely? Like every other person that is buying up land and raising the price of real estate relative to those that actually work in the towns?



Just a suggestion, read what TCD wrote a few posts back. One of the best and most honest things he's posted, and non-political as well (we may not see eye to eye on a lot, but I meet him right in the middle there). That's probably your best bet of actually living inside the blue line. Asking the local governments to subsidize you existing to be there because you want to be, and not because you are directly working there, is 110% not what these programs are meant to fix. Talk about missing the picture.


And just to drive it home. Say towns did do something like that. They couldn't build the houses fast enough to fill them with the number of people that would come and work "remotely" there, so automatically that demand would drive up the price and you'd be exactly where you are now. You like it because you think it will benefit your motives but it has no real basis in long-term community and economy.
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Old 05-24-2022, 10:51 AM   #42
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Montcalm: you seem to be making some wrong assumptions. I am not saying towns should subsidize my free or low cost housing. All I'm saying is that towns should encourage this kind of housing. I wasn't even thinking public housing, just private developers and market rate housing.

It could be tax breaks on construction costs. It could be PILOT agreements. It could to modify zoning laws to permit/facilitate this kind of construction. It could even be "we'll help you navigate the APA bureaucracy" It could be as simple as the supervisor and town board making it town that they would welcome such housing.

As for me wanting to live in the Park to work remotely, I don't see why that is so terrible. If I worked remotely in a town, it means I'd work in the town.

If I lived in and worked remotely in the Park, it would also mean that I'd buy groceries and gas and eat the the diner in that town. I'd be spending most of my money locally and helping "brick and mortar" businesses in that town. I'd be helping the sales tax base and the employment rate. I'd be volunteering for local organizations in that town, just as I do in my current town. That's what living in a place entails. In fact, I'd spend MORE of my money locally than if, say, I lived inside the Park but commuted to Albany or Plattsburgh for my job.

Isn't this what Park municipalities should want? People committed to living there full-time and being a part of the community? *smh*
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Old 05-24-2022, 01:24 PM   #43
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IMO everything you are saying is EXACTLY what we should avoid.

It's development for the sake of development. Why? So you can support a grocery store and a diner and work elsewhere?

That's not a community and tbh there is far more money to be made from tourism with "brick and mortar".


Why wouldn't you just work somewhere else? If you work remotely, you have a pick, no? But you want to choose an area that is highly desirable and see it developed more.

This is super insensitive but I notice it all the time:

People from NJ move to the Adirondacks and they want to turn it into NJ. Why didn't they stay in NJ?

I think you either have to love it for what it is - in fact you must, something is drawing you there and accept that those things are maybe what make it what it is.

I mentioned (on yet another thread like this) that if you want to boost up a small town and work remotely there, I can give you a long list in the rest of the state... but you won't have 3 million acres of public land and limited development (which you secretly love when it fits your motive).
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:01 PM   #44
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You're making incredible assumptions. I feel like you're arguing with your personal caricature of a non-Adirondacker (even though the Blue Line is about 2 miles from my current residence and my part-time job is inside the Blue Line) rather than what I've actually said.

I like my (full-time) job because it's flexible and has better pay and benefits than most in the Adirondacks. I don't want to change jobs. I want to change where I do that job.

I would move into the Park precisely because I like it more or less the way it is. Otherwise, why would I move there? I hate New Jersey. I already live in a suburb. I want to move precisely because I'm not a fan of suburban life. I do not expect anything in another town to change because of me.

I really don't understand your bias against people working remotely. It is a great way to increase full-time residents in the Park, to provide EMS and VFD services and other community groups more volunteers, improve the sales tax base and employment of local businesses.

I want to live there. I want to spend money there. I want to volunteer there. I want to commit my life there. It just doesn't make sense for me as a single guy to buy a house there (especially in today's market). Why is this so damn "insensitive"?

YOU were the one who proposed the dorm idea to boost permanent residents - I agreed it was an idea worth pursuing - and yet you're crapping on the motives of the people who would want to take advantage of your good idea.

I'd rather you be honest and just come out and say, "We don't want anyone here whose great-grandparents didn't live here 100 years ago." While continuing to blame everything on Albany, of course. If you don't want any new residents, fine. Just say so. Stop pretending.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:08 PM   #45
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If wanting to live and work in the Adirondacks are not an acceptable reason to move there, I would ask Montcalm to list what are acceptable reasons. Create an application form so that he and the other gatekeepers could vet insolent newcomers.
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Old 05-24-2022, 02:10 PM   #46
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Again I think you are missing the point, and I think we are done here.

Everything you have proposed has been about one thing: you. If you can't see beyond that, I can't help you.


There's nothing wrong with working remotely or commuting from the park. But because of its character you'll have to make some other concession or find a better job that pays you more, or save more money. The market is what it is and if left unchecked, the Adirondacks would probably look more like Queensbury (I don't know about NJ, I've never been - but I knew you would blow that out of proportion and completely miss the point).
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Old 05-26-2022, 12:27 PM   #47
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Montcalm: "The market is what it is and if left unchecked, the Adirondacks would probably look more like Queensbury"

Sounds like you also support "limited development (which you secretly love when it fits your motive)."

I'm sorry you can't see the bigger picture and that you continue to make wrong assumptions based on your grudges. I used my own case as a metaphor for a group of people that is certainly bigger than just me: people who would live and work in the Adks but are held back solely by lack of affordable housing. I did not request any changes other than agreeing with the solution that YOU YOURSELF PROPOSED. It's noteworthy that you imply all kinds of awful things about what I must want but don't specify a single one of those thing that you find threatening.

I am amazed that you continuously attack me and motives (how dare I want to live and work in the Adirondacks as they are now... what a monster I must be!) for agreeing with a solution that YOU YOURSELF PROPOSED. But I guess some folks must always feel aggrieved or under siege no matter what.

You are right that we are probably done here. Fortunately, there are serious people trying to deal with these issues.
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Old 05-26-2022, 03:10 PM   #48
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Brian - I think you need to check your reading comprehension and be less triggered. I said nothing of the sort.


There’s a big difference between trying to help those afford housing within a community they serve vs housing of those commuting and working remotely.
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Old 05-27-2022, 07:27 AM   #49
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Well, officially regretful I posted the link.
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Old 05-27-2022, 12:18 PM   #50
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Well, officially regretful I posted the link.
Don't be. It's an important discussion. Sometimes, important discussions get messy but they need to happen.
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Old 05-27-2022, 12:35 PM   #51
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Don't be. It's an important discussion. Sometimes, important discussions get messy but they need to happen.
I have no bad blood.

I wanted to make it abundantly clear that what I?m arguing is not anything directly benefiting me or my goals but supporting the core communities in the Adirondacks.

You are free to have a differing opinion on that and unfortunately the idea I was opposing was strongly intermingled with your personal goals.

I hope you succeed in your dreams but I also hope that you put those that actually need assistance ahead of your own personal objectives.
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Old 05-27-2022, 02:27 PM   #52
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Montcalm - Point taken and I bear no ill will either.

My intention was to use my personal situation as a metaphor for a lot of people in similar situations: people who would happily choose to live and work and volunteer their time and spend most of their money in the Adirondacks as they are now, if there were more reasonable housing options.

Perhaps you interpreted this to be only about me which was not my intent. The intent was to use my situation as an illustration of the issue, not the issue itself. Sorry if it came across differently.

If I never am able to move inside the Blue Line, I will be fine. Trust me. And no town is going to collapse because my one self didn't move there.

But if people want to grow the economy of the Adirondacks and support core communities, then increased housing options for people who want to live and work there (which is a category far more numerous than one) is imperative. That includes both retaining people who already live and work there as well as attracting new ones.

Not only for the sake of the economy and the work force but also strengthening essential community organizations by replenishing volunteers. Many local officials agree and are working to this end.

As I said, I agree your dorm suggestion is a good idea and should be part of the solution.
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Old 05-27-2022, 05:58 PM   #53
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One of the main limitations of online forums is the lack of body language and tone. It has been well established by research that people almost always misinterpret tone in written communication especially if they do not know them personally. Research has shown that positive tone in written communication is often misinterpreted as neutral, and neutral language is often misinterpreted as negative. Knowing this, it behooves us all to be cognizant of our word choices, use emojies as a stand-in for body language, and give others the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 05-27-2022, 06:04 PM   #54
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I posted the article because it seemed unfortunate that the "middle class" residents - firefighters, teachers, carpenters, secretaries, etc. - a segment who along with their kids make the communities culturally richer, we're increasingly being forced to leave for lack of affordable housing.

No solutions. Some balancing of property taxes to allow people to stay maybe has merit. The dormitory feels a little like the "projects" of the 60s. Just feel like the people forced to leave will be missed.
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Old 05-27-2022, 06:15 PM   #55
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One of the main limitations of online forums is the lack of body language and tone. It has been well established by research that people almost always misinterpret tone in written communication especially if they do not know them personally. Research has shown that positive tone in written communication is often misinterpreted as neutral, and neutral language is often misinterpreted as negative. Knowing this, it behooves us all to be cognizant of our word choices, use emojies as a stand-in for body language, and give others the benefit of the doubt.
Just think of all those kids wearing masks, sitting behind plexiglass partitions, and keeping socially distanced....their social skills must have taken a beating and will continue I fear...Just sayin.....
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Old 05-27-2022, 08:15 PM   #56
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There is some housing in the villages in the Adirondacks that is old single family homes or duplexes that are abandoned or otherwise unoccupied, and that could be made into usable housing stock again with some effort. That's what I'm doing currently with one house, and I'm sure others are doing similar things. This is not the whole solution to the housing problem, but it could help a little and would also improve the overall condition of the neighborhoods slightly. I think that perhaps the tight housing market is making it more likely for these houses to be bought and repaired since there are fewer other options at an affordable price.
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Old 05-28-2022, 05:36 AM   #57
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Another adaptive reuse proposal. I applaud the thinking, just not sure of the perception issues. https://www.wwnytv.com/2022/05/27/we...closed-prison/
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Old 06-09-2022, 02:50 PM   #58
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https://www.adirondackdailyenterpris...p-making-rent/
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