Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > General Adirondack Discussion
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

View Poll Results: Should the Blue Line keep expanding?
Yes, we need to keep adding areas that fit within the scope of the current park 49 68.06%
No, it's already too big. 23 31.94%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-14-2014, 09:26 AM   #21
azimuth
Member
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: High Peaks
Posts: 55
The blue line, while it is mostly a geophysical area has had political influence placed upon it, both inclusive forces and exclusionary. The NW corner should be expanded to include more in Franklin County that was excluded for political reasons. Parts of Fulton county, the Sacandaga area where added to include the entire reservoir despite being more Mhk valley than Adirondack.
azimuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 10:56 AM   #22
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc34 View Post
if we expand the blue line there is less land for the young to move to and find jobs....
There is plenty of land for the young to move to. As for finding jobs, Northville, Mayfield, Gloversville, Johnstown and Amsterdam are all outside and in proximity to the blue line.

Been to Gloverville recently? Talk about urban blight. Hundreds of homes and buildings in disrepair or abandoned completely. One of the highest unemployment rates in the country. Not much employment in Northville, Mayfield, Johnstown or Amsterdam either. People are moving out, not in.
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:04 AM   #23
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
There is plenty of land for the young to move to. As for finding jobs, Northville, Mayfield, Gloversville, Johnstown and Amsterdam are all outside and in proximity to the blue line.

Been to Gloverville recently? Talk about urban blight. Hundreds of homes and buildings in disrepair or abandoned completely. One of the highest unemployment rates in the country. Not much employment in Northville, Mayfield, Johnstown or Amsterdam either. People are moving out, not in.
Northville is inside the blue line. But what you say is true.

Again, not a lot of difference between the towns inside or outside in that area.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:15 AM   #24
Neil
Admin
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,118
It's a matter of opinion I suppose but which is more important (or are they of equal importance)?
The park as it relates to sociology and economics?
The park as it relates to nature.

Ie. are you biocentric or anthropocentric?

The above can be mutually inclusive if one's personal opinion so wishes. However, the governance of these lands and the way they are treated are subject to the wording of the various laws which define them, not to the opinions of a collection of forum goers such as ourselves.

As for expansion I guess it would depend upon the nature of the lands that border upon the blue line. Having sojourned there I would agree with areas around Watson's East Triangle being added.
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:16 AM   #25
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by azimuth View Post
The blue line, while it is mostly a geophysical area has had political influence placed upon it, both inclusive forces and exclusionary. The NW corner should be expanded to include more in Franklin County that was excluded for political reasons. Parts of Fulton county, the Sacandaga area where added to include the entire reservoir despite being more Mhk valley than Adirondack.


This map is pretty rough, but others can generally see what you are saying.

Should expansion, if it is to happen, only include those geophysical areas?

That would of course exclude the Black River Valley and Tug Hill.

Last edited by montcalm; 10-14-2014 at 01:13 PM..
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:17 AM   #26
RichieC
Member
 
RichieC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc34 View Post
if we expand the blue line there is less land for the young to move to and find jobs....
The only reason someone would want to move into the blue line is because of what the protections and rules that have kept it as it now exists. The fact is, NY has a negative population growth if not for the influx of immigrants new to the US. Not having a place for young people to move to and make a living is not caused by the blue line boundary, but rather the state boundary. Come this next election day, vote wisely.

In years to come, our great great great grandchildren will have a "Central Park" called the Adirondacks surrounded by urban mess, and they'll thank us for protecting this oasis against all who would "improve" it for their immediate gain, usually by covering it with blacktop and high rises and posted signs.
RichieC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:24 AM   #27
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil View Post
As for expansion I guess it would depend upon the nature of the lands that border upon the blue line. Having sojourned there I would agree with areas around Watson's East Triangle being added.
This is where my personal thoughts about the current boundary are differing from that of the state.

Azimuth pointed it out, as well as you, but this is the exact area I was thinking of. It feels like one is well into the Adirondacks up there before the actual political line is crossed.

The reality of the matter is, the powers that be consider not only the nature, but also the social and economic aspects.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 12:31 PM   #28
azimuth
Member
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: High Peaks
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post


This map is pretty rough, but you can generally see what you are saying.

Should expansion, if it is to happen, only include those geophysical areas?

That would of course exclude the Black River Valley and Tug Hill.
Yes, good basic map. I would not been in favor of expanding the blue line to Tug Hill. Yes I would to areas outside that are geo-phyis "Adirondack". I have been planning a circumnavigation of the blue line for last couple years. (Not in a vehicle) Someday, I hope.
azimuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 12:41 PM   #29
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Redhawk's post made me think of something. It seems that even some residents and non-residents make up their own blue lines.

I sat at a counter next to a gentleman in Tupper Lake, a resident and apparently a generational native, who was sure that the village of Lake George was not in the Adirondack park. I decided it best not to correct him and just let him go. I'm not sure if he really thought it wasn't inside the blue line, or he subconsciously didn't want it to be inside the blue.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 05:45 PM   #30
geogymn
Member
 
geogymn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieC View Post
The only reason someone would want to move into the blue line is because of what the protections and rules that have kept it as it now exists. The fact is, NY has a negative population growth if not for the influx of immigrants new to the US. Not having a place for young people to move to and make a living is not caused by the blue line boundary, but rather the state boundary. Come this next election day, vote wisely.

In years to come, our great great great grandchildren will have a "Central Park" called the Adirondacks surrounded by urban mess, and they'll thank us for protecting this oasis against all who would "improve" it for their immediate gain, usually by covering it with blacktop and high rises and posted signs.
Good post.
__________________
"A culture is no better than its woods." W.H. Auden
geogymn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 07:46 PM   #31
vtflyfish
Brookie Addict
 
vtflyfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West coast of New England
Posts: 2,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieC View Post

In years to come, our great great great grandchildren will have a "Central Park" called the Adirondacks surrounded by urban mess, and they'll thank us for protecting this oasis against all who would "improve" it for their immediate gain, usually by covering it with blacktop and high rises and posted signs.


Just look at the Eastern US light map and the beautiful darkness of the Adirondack Park. I love the night flight home from Chicago for that reason. It's the only place in the East where you can look down and see darkness.
__________________
Oscar Wilde:Work is the curse of the drinking class
vtflyfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2014, 11:11 PM   #32
OntarioSkiBum
Member
 
OntarioSkiBum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by geogymn View Post
Good post.
2X that
OntarioSkiBum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:41 PM   #33
Zachnaturephotographer
Member
 
Zachnaturephotographer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: western fringe of Tug Hill
Posts: 43
Should the Blue Line keep expanding?

Excellent and interesting post.

I would like to see further lands within the blue line added to the forest preserve, as well as, an expansion to include the areas that are obviously part of the Adirondack uplift- easily discernible in the satellite image.

I would like to see more done to keep Tug Hill "connected" to the Adirondacks. There is but a small forested area in the Boonville region to provide an ideal travel corridor for wildlife. This "connectivity" is something the WCS and TNC have been monitoring. Much of the core forest of Tug Hill is already protected from development by easement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zachnaturephotographer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:46 PM   #34
yellowcanoe
Member
 
yellowcanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtflyfish View Post


Just look at the Eastern US light map and the beautiful darkness of the Adirondack Park. I love the night flight home from Chicago for that reason. It's the only place in the East where you can look down and see darkness.
Not quite but such places are rare.

Here is a map. You will notice the ADK's and Maine away from the coast stand out.


http://darksitefinder.com/maps/unite...s-15color.html
yellowcanoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:50 PM   #35
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachnaturephotographer View Post
Excellent and interesting post.
Thanks. I thought it was an interesting topic.

Apparently not as not as much so as global warming, bears, and burning plastic... but hey, it's not about the glory
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 09:54 PM   #36
montcalm
Mobster
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,690
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post
Not quite but such places are rare.

Here is a map. You will notice the ADK's and Maine away from the coast stand out.


http://darksitefinder.com/maps/unite...s-15color.html
And not all those dark spots are something to be proud of:



Ours are. Persecution of others' ideas and beliefs doesn't make for bright lights, in the head or in the hall.
montcalm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2014, 10:07 PM   #37
yellowcanoe
Member
 
yellowcanoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,177
That looks like N Korea. Am I correct? I appreciate your comment ; in the context of us who can travel and see freely it may make us think and appreciate what we have a little more.
yellowcanoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 07:30 AM   #38
stripperguy
Hangin' by a thread
 
stripperguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Schenectady, NY
Posts: 3,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post
That looks like N Korea. Am I correct? I appreciate your comment ; in the context of us who can travel and see freely it may make us think and appreciate what we have a little more.

Off topic, but related to the above...
I recently borrowed and read one of my son's books, "Escape From Camp 14".
The true story of the a man, Shin Dong-hyuk, born in a N Korean political prison, his escape to the free world, and the North Korean systematic oppression of their people.
Not a very comfortable read, but worth a look.
For example, Shin tells of witnessing his 8 year old classmate beat to death in front of fellow students, because this classmate had a grain of rice in her pocket. And Shin explains why he felt at the time that she deserved that brutal end.
Yeah, pretty uncomfortable.
stripperguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 07:57 AM   #39
Neil
Admin
 
Neil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,118
If the universe is expanding does it follow that the area inside the blue line should also expand?
__________________
The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
Neil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2014, 07:59 AM   #40
azimuth
Member
 
azimuth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: High Peaks
Posts: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachnaturephotographer View Post
Excellent and interesting post.

I would like to see further lands within the blue line added to the forest preserve, as well as, an expansion to include the areas that are obviously part of the Adirondack uplift- easily discernible in the satellite image.

I would like to see more done to keep Tug Hill "connected" to the Adirondacks. There is but a small forested area in the Boonville region to provide an ideal travel corridor for wildlife. This "connectivity" is something the WCS and TNC have been monitoring. Much of the core forest of Tug Hill is already protected from development by easement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree with your corridor connection idea to the tug hill. I think there are groups that are striving for this.
azimuth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.