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Old 04-25-2021, 03:44 PM   #41
Tug Hill
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According to the map it shows Oak on Tug Hill , there are few oaks on Tug Hill, And in the core of the plateau there are none.
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Old 04-25-2021, 05:05 PM   #42
montcalm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tug Hill View Post
According to the map it shows Oak on Tug Hill , there are few oaks on Tug Hill, And in the core of the plateau there are none.
Copy - the DEC map shows this better. I believe that data is from USDA:

https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/mis...rcus/rubra.htm

Maybe historically there were a very few there? No idea really, or that data has errors. It's not density, it's just whether it is/was their range.

I also wonder about the Whites. Must be a significant portion of high elevation terrain where they don't grow there.


My point was the Maples and Beech seem to grow as far north as they do. They have no issues in the ADK (or TH). Think it must be more than just temperature. Do other species just fill the niche they fill better there? Is it the soil? Is it moisture?

There are tiny pockets of Oaks even in the South and Western Adirondacks. Very rare as I understand it.

Last edited by montcalm; 04-25-2021 at 06:21 PM..
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Old 04-25-2021, 06:15 PM   #43
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No correlation at all to plant hardiness zones, which I believe is min temp based.

I looked at some precipitation, average temps, etc and I didn't see any striking correlation. None that carried over into New England.

Not really seeing any smoking gun with soils:

https://esdac.jrc.ec.europa.eu/image...sm/US/us39.jpg
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Old 04-25-2021, 10:07 PM   #44
montcalm
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This Oak thing has been a mystery to me for some time.

I recall hiking quite a few years back in the Finger Lakes and it must have been a real big acorn mast year and I was just falling all over acorns. I hadn't even realized, ever really, how many oaks there were in that particular area. Makes complete sense to me now studying the literature of the type of forest it is.

Anyway, I've spent a fair deal of my life really trying to understand the qualities of the Adirondacks I like, and what makes it different than where I've lived most my life. It then somehow clicked that I've never seen an acorn in the parts of the Adirondacks I frequented. In fact I could probably count on my hand the number of times I've been to the far eastern parts in summer or early fall, mostly only early spring or winter, and then it was hard for me to distinguish species, except really obvious ones like birches, or conifers.

So I looked at maps back then, and sure enough they were showing no range for Oak in the West/Central Adirondacks. And here years later I still don't understand it, but I think for me, it must be one critical characteristic in what makes those forests feel "different".
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Old 06-24-2021, 10:57 AM   #45
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Back to the Beech.

Good presentation on managing Beech trees to promote healthy, mast producing trees for wildlife.

https://youtu.be/3UiUvHsZEtU


I've been thinking about how this might play out on the Forest Preserve, although I'll be dead before I'd know. My thought is in the short term we may get some Beech thickets, but they won't persist. The trees that sucker off will need to grow to certain size before dying to be able to store enough energy for the system to keep perpetuating i.e. the cloning and infection. It's not an efficient system so eventually healthy trees will outcompete it. We really don't know what that will look like in the future - it may happen that through global warming we may see more encroachment of Oak-Hickory - and possible if we re-introduce resistant Chestnut, that those forests with Oak will start to regenerate. It's also possible that we may stay with the Maple-Beech dominance and the Beech will overcome the BB disease on their own. Tough to say and it's likely going to play out based on local climates getting either wetter - favoring Maple-Beech or drier, favoring Oak-Hickory. I make that assumption because down south they can literally see the divide between these forest types based on where fires still occur, and that's the only thing that really stops the Maple-Beech from dominating.
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