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Old 12-07-2011, 05:40 AM   #1
danceswithflies
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Hikers Threatened at Gunpoint in Catskills

http://www.watershedpost.com/2011/hi...t-near-windham

This is a truly bizarre story. I'm posting here because it occurred in the Catskills and not the Adirondacks.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:45 AM   #2
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Unfortunately menacing is probably the only charge that can be levied against these people.I think I probably would have just left the first time when they told me to and reported them.No sense in arguing over a place to sleep.At the same time had I been the one who first occupied the lean-to and someone else arrived if they seemed harmless I would have welcomed them in.If however they acted like sharing the lean-to with me was a burden to them I would have let them have it and slept under the stars or in the truck.I know the lean'to is for everyones use but I myself can't see any reason to argue over it,give it up and live another day.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:55 AM   #3
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Forutnately not all hunters are like this. Unfortunately this type are the only ones you read about in the papers.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:56 AM   #4
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"menacing" - one of new yorks greatest laws and generally a great word.

What an odd story...

Obviously this guy isn't representative of the majority of hikers and gun owners.

And another reason to make fun of new jersey...

Most disturbing is that the hikers were followed back to there car.

As someone else said "and I worry about bears...go figure."
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:18 AM   #5
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I believe Garden City is on Long Island, not in New Jersey. Just saying.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:22 AM   #6
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I believe Garden City is on Long Island, not in New Jersey. Just saying.
You are correct. My 8th grade geography teacher would be ashamed of my mistake.
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Old 12-07-2011, 08:49 AM   #7
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That story is bizarre! I am sure it will be fully investigated, if allegations are found to be true, throw the book at them, no call for such behavior.
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Old 12-07-2011, 09:16 AM   #8
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Gunpoint, kicking, chasing all the way to the lot, chased while driving??? If true, I think there has to be more to the story than what has been reported.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:01 AM   #9
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That's not menacing. That's called assault and battery or if the shotgun was used aggravated assault and battery. I'm shocked, if the story is true, that the accused individual wasn't arrested because that would be a felony. As I read the story the accused were given summons.

This story sounds like it was written by an attorney though, i.e. make the case for borderline aggravated assault, a felony, vs misdemeanor assault which could potentially be a minor offense.

Either way it's crazy. Normal people don't behave in this manner.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:35 AM   #10
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Gunpoint, kicking, chasing all the way to the lot, chased while driving??? If true, I think there has to be more to the story than what has been reported.
Indeed. What were they hiding in that lean-to? Illegal weapons? Illegal game? Drugs? Cash? A body? All of the above?

There is definately more to this story than has been reported. Did the DEC officer go up and check out the lean-to? If firearms were used to threaten someones life were those firearms confiscated for evidence? An appearance ticket and no bail? Couldn't have been charged with much more than camping violations and a very low grade menacing charge.

When you arrest someone in a situation like this you charge them with everything you can think of that might apply under the penal code. Then when it goes to court the DA sees what can be made to stick and what gets pled down or dismissed. Aggravated assault would be an appropriate charge based on the description of the incident, and I don't see where that charge was lodged.

I think this will be an interesting case to follow. Greene county DA's office may lodge additional charges based on the statements of those involved. I guess we will have to see.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:46 AM   #11
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I think the fact that the perps pursued the hikers down the trail and then continued to follow them in their car is the most troubling aspect of the event. Did they intend to kill them? Were they trying to prevent them from going to the police because they had something, like a poached deer, that they were hiding? Based on the known facts, I agree that the police response to the incident was underwhelming. Stay tuned, folks, there's got to be more to it.
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Old 12-07-2011, 10:51 AM   #12
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The name of the victim relating the story sounds either Indian or Pakistani. I wonder if this was a racial hatred thing?
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:09 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by danceswithflies View Post
I think the fact that the perps pursued the hikers down the trail and then continued to follow them in their car is the most troubling aspect of the event. Did they intend to kill them? Were they trying to prevent them from going to the police because they had something, like a poached deer, that they were hiding? Based on the known facts, I agree that the police response to the incident was underwhelming. Stay tuned, folks, there's got to be more to it.
Or... the story has changed since that night. The police response could be an indication.

Let's try and not draw too many conclusions from an incomplete story i.e. Race bias/illegal hunting/drugs...etc.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:11 AM   #14
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The name of the victim relating the story sounds either Indian or Pakistani. I wonder if this was a racial hatred thing?
The same thought had crossed my mind. I think not though. This seems more about covering up illegal activity than any type of race issue. Maybe the boys got a stil up there and they were 'shining.....
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:25 AM   #15
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In all likelihood, even if more reports are forthcoming, we will never know exactly what happened, what was said (and how).

Very bizarre story nonetheless. If the hunters (we don't really know that they were hunters do we?) wanted to draw attention to themselves and whatever it was they were doing (if they were doing anything) they certainly succeeded.

Reminds me of how bald-faced wasps (yellow-jackets) react.
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:38 AM   #16
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Not to derail the conversation, but Bald-faced wasps [sic] are "really bald-faced hornets", not yellow jackets - ("don't racially malign me, man....")

You are misled by the fact that they are part of the genus, "Yellow Jackets" - but not the species, "Yellow Jackets" - two different things, but with the same name.

Next time you get stung, make sure you're cuss out the right creature.

WikiPedia:

"It belongs to a genus of wasps called yellowjackets in North America, but is not called that because it lacks yellow coloring. Instead, it is called a hornet in the American sense of a wasp that builds paper nests, especially one of the subfamily Vespinae.[2]"
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:42 AM   #17
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Gunpoint, kicking, chasing all the way to the lot, chased while driving??? If true, I think there has to be more to the story than what has been reported.
Agreed, "me thinks thou doth protest too much"
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:58 AM   #18
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I know what we can do, we can recreate the story via the "add three words only" rule!! hahaha.

Can we hijack the thread and talk about our worst lean-to stories? I actually witnessed drug use for the first time in a lean-to, my father was not very happy that night because we all had to split up (Although, I thought they were really cool dudes). Looking back the guys were harmless free spirits that were into climbing by day and psychadellic's at night. Different people completely in the morning when they woke up at dawn, made us all breakfast and cleaned up and took off for their climb bright and early. And of course noone was concerned about people stealing gear.

As nice it is to share a lean-to with people you have to be nervous when you have children. As a new Father (daughter 6 mos) I couldn't imagine sleeping with strangers in an open environment like a lean-to, and definately not ones that I had a verbal/physical/armed?? fist to cuffs with. I also think times have changed, and we will always be saying that.

And there was also the time when an animal defacated on me in the lean-to......

There's been many times where we came upon lean-to's full or improperly used and we didn't throw a fit to make room for us. For the reason that you don't want to fight with the person you are sleeping next too unless you are married to them.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:00 PM   #19
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The name of the victim relating the story sounds either Indian or Pakistani. I wonder if this was a racial hatred thing?
I believe I've met her on several occasions (I assume she is the woman I've met, the ethnicity certainly does limit the chances). She was very nice and friendly on both occasions, and on the second encounter, she remembered me from the first which had occurred several years prior.

Btw, the article doesn't mention it, but the guys also apparently had two tents set up inside the lean-to. Peanuts compared to the threats that were made, of course, but I hope that they were cited for that as well as closing off the lean-to with plastic!

I don't want to speculate too much, but from the description of what the perpetrators had set up at the lean-to (plastic across the front, tents inside the lean-to, and the interior of the lean-to covered with reflective metal emergency-blanket type material), it sounds like they are folks who aren't too knowledgeable or comfortable with backcountry camping in the woods. I wonder if any of their reaction had to do with this level of discomfort, combined with the unexpected arrival of someone at 11pm, asking them to move their tents out of the lean-to? Certainly no excuse, if true, of course.
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Old 12-07-2011, 12:07 PM   #20
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Wise words as always Deathstar.

Is putting a tarp across the front illegal? I've done that suspended with rope many times.
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