Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > Current Affairs and Environmental Issues > Current and Historical Affairs
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-30-2010, 09:09 PM   #1
chairrock
Indian Mt.Club
 
chairrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,648
Parks facing funding shortfalls ...

Has anyone noticed what is going on in NYS?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101231/...ts_state_parks
__________________
Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
Henry David Thoreau

CL50-#23
chairrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 09:57 PM   #2
rollinslover64
Member
 
rollinslover64's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 369
I've noticed as some parks have closed. Others however have received upgrades,Rollins Pond recently had a new electrical system installed and the local state park near me,Chenango Valley,recently had a new campground loop built.Expenditures seem to be based on usage. If parks are not used much no funding is being directed towards them. The same is happening with the rest areas as many of them have closed.
rollinslover64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 10:12 PM   #3
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Parks are being closed, people are being laid off, many things are not being funded.

There's no money, I think we all need to understand the reality of that.

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2010, 11:52 PM   #4
UpstateIrish
Member
 
UpstateIrish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Parks are being closed, people are being laid off, many things are not being funded.

There's no money, I think we all need to understand the reality of that.

Hawk
It is absolutely a lousy state of affairs out here in Cali as well:

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/11/03/315...d%20California
__________________
Yo Rondeau!
(Polish phrase said after every hike meaning "nice driveway" regarding the path just taken)
http://www.eastwesthike.com
UpstateIrish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 12:11 AM   #5
rADK
Member
 
rADK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 242
I don't really have a problem with the lack of maintenance as long as people can still access the areas.
rADK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 09:42 AM   #6
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoodsman View Post
As consumers we do far more to support jobs in places like China than we do here,why wouldn't the end result be this state of affairs. The day will come soon enough where parks closing and cut backs are the least of our worries.
Actually the fact is that we are supporting rich American businesses who choose to do business in China. It's American Big Business that benefits the most.

We are a Capatalistic society, and make no bones about being proud of it. Capatalism is a system that maximises profits by using the least expensive materials and labor to manufacture or produce goods.

People in other countries who do not have the standard of living that Americans have will work for much less, therefore the labor pool is less expensive as are the raw materials and goods that are manufactured overseas are much cheaper then those made in America.

So, until Americans lower their standard of living and become less of a consumer and disposable society it will get '"worse".
Of course what we consider "worse" here is still a standard of living that would be life of luxury to those people who are "stealing American jobs".

Back in the 50's, the jobs moved from the Northeast to the South because it was cheaper to do business there. Now that we are becoming a "global society", encouraged by the wealthy and supported by their puppet politicians because they can maximize profits even more, Americans will have to settle for lower wages and less consumerism. They will have to conserve and also repair things as they wear out, break down, etc, rather then just dispose of them and buy new ones. We'll all have to learn to sew in order to mend clothes and we'll have to learn how to work with our hands to repair things. We will have to learn to grow our own foods and prepare them ourselves rather then open a box and press a button.

Who knows, we may have to hunt and fish in order to supplement our food and stretch our incomes, like the majority of my peope who live on the reservations.

Actually, it might not be such a bad thing after all.

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 10:08 AM   #7
Hobbitling
spring fever
 
Hobbitling's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rochester area
Posts: 2,239
good points Redhawk.

I love the circular logic of the TV pundits.

"What caused this mess Mr. Pundit?"
"Too much borrowing and consumption"
"What will save our economy Mr. Pundit?"
"rising consumer confidence and more cheap credit, of course!"

I also agree with Backwoodsman. Soon park maintenance will be the least of our worries.
__________________
He found himself wondering at times, especially in the autumn, about the wild lands, and strange visions of mountains that he had never seen came into his dreams.
Hobbitling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 10:17 AM   #8
geogymn
Member
 
geogymn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,976
"They will have to conserve and also repair things as they wear out, break down, etc, rather then just dispose of them and buy new ones. We'll all have to learn to sew in order to mend clothes and we'll have to learn how to work with our hands to repair things. We will have to learn to grow our own foods and prepare them ourselves rather then open a box and press a button."

We know that won't happen until there is total collapse of society as we know it, and I don't think anyone wants that. The end is admirable but the means would cause too much suffering to the ones you love, no?
geogymn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 10:59 AM   #9
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Actually the fact is that we are supporting rich American businesses who choose to do business in China. It's American Big Business that benefits the most.

We are a Capatalistic society, and make no bones about being proud of it. Capatalism is a system that maximises profits by using the least expensive materials and labor to manufacture or produce goods.

People in other countries who do not have the standard of living that Americans have will work for much less, therefore the labor pool is less expensive as are the raw materials and goods that are manufactured overseas are much cheaper then those made in America.

So, until Americans lower their standard of living and become less of a consumer and disposable society it will get '"worse".
Of course what we consider "worse" here is still a standard of living that would be life of luxury to those people who are "stealing American jobs".

Back in the 50's, the jobs moved from the Northeast to the South because it was cheaper to do business there. Now that we are becoming a "global society", encouraged by the wealthy and supported by their puppet politicians because they can maximize profits even more, Americans will have to settle for lower wages and less consumerism. They will have to conserve and also repair things as they wear out, break down, etc, rather then just dispose of them and buy new ones. We'll all have to learn to sew in order to mend clothes and we'll have to learn how to work with our hands to repair things. We will have to learn to grow our own foods and prepare them ourselves rather then open a box and press a button.

Who knows, we may have to hunt and fish in order to supplement our food and stretch our incomes, like the majority of my peope who live on the reservations.

Actually, it might not be such a bad thing after all.

Hawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by geogymn View Post
"They will have to conserve and also repair things as they wear out, break down, etc, rather then just dispose of them and buy new ones. We'll all have to learn to sew in order to mend clothes and we'll have to learn how to work with our hands to repair things. We will have to learn to grow our own foods and prepare them ourselves rather then open a box and press a button."

We know that won't happen until there is total collapse of society as we know it, and I don't think anyone wants that. The end is admirable but the means would cause too much suffering to the ones you love, no?
Actually, doing all those thinfgs was something that was once common in America. It was part of the American way of life. And we're not talking ancient history either. Maintaining, repairing and reusing goods was common when i was a kid, and that wasn't that long ago, 40's and 50's.

It's amazing isn't it that with the hardship of no computers, microwaves, no texting, wired phones, etc we managed to not only survive, but to have a much better quality of life, less selfishness, more courteous, more compassionate lives then we do today.

Not only that we managed to do that with only one house (just large enough for our growing families, and one car. Most of our kids worked their way through college.

Imagine this statement in the 50's:

"Mom, I lost my Ipod"

reply.

"Well, honey, you'll have to get a job and earn the money for a replacement"

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 11:43 AM   #10
geogymn
Member
 
geogymn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,976
"but to have a much better quality of life, less selfishness, more courteous, more compassionate lives then we do today."

Quality of life is in direct proportion to life struggles, at least spiritually. We've all become, to a certain degree, fat and lazy which weakens the spirit. It is only when we give does one's spirit soar. There is always too much evil but I think there is more compassion today than in all the times past, at least in most cultures. We just seem to focus on the evil in attempts to make this world a better place?
geogymn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 12:38 PM   #11
DuctTape
Out of Shape
 
DuctTape's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by geogymn View Post
"but to have a much better quality of life, less selfishness, more courteous, more compassionate lives then we do today."

Quality of life is in direct proportion to life struggles, at least spiritually. We've all become, to a certain degree, fat and lazy which weakens the spirit. It is only when we give does one's spirit soar. There is always too much evil but I think there is more compassion today than in all the times past, at least in most cultures. We just seem to focus on the evil in attempts to make this world a better place?
I have to say this is supported by my experiences. The people whom I met with the greatest "spirit" was back when I was in high school. I was volunteering down in West Virginia rehabbing homes. This was in the heart of Appalachia, an old coal town which the mining company left for ruin. The town had a 70% unemployment rate. The conditions in which many of the people lived were beyond my comprehension at the time. I didn't know these conditions existed in the United States. The creek through the center of town was also the sewer (this is assuming the home even had indoor plumbing, as many didn't). Kids played in the creek. Families ate the fish from the creek. Homes were heated with the coal chunks picked up along the roads and railways. Materially these people had nothing. Spiritually though, they were very rich.
__________________
"There's a whisper on the night-wind, there's a star agleam to guide us, And the Wild is calling, calling . . . let us go." -from "The Call of the Wild" by Robert Service

My trail journal: DuctTape's Journal
DuctTape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 12:43 PM   #12
DSettahr
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
DSettahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
It's amazing isn't it that with the hardship of no computers, microwaves, no texting, wired phones, etc we managed to not only survive, but to have a much better quality of life, less selfishness, more courteous, more compassionate lives then we do today.
And a shorter life span, too! (Although that might not have been such a bad thing, from an ecological point of view)

Am I the only one who's amused that this conversation is taking place on an online forum? I can't be.
DSettahr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 01:02 PM   #13
Dustin
Member
 
Dustin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clay, NY
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Maintaining, repairing and reusing goods was common when i was a kid, and that wasn't that long ago, 40's and 50's.
1840's and 1850's?
__________________
“Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.”

~John Muir





Photos
Dustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2010, 02:48 PM   #14
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
1840's and 1850's?
I wish
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 02:31 AM   #15
sp_nyp
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
Parks are being closed, people are being laid off, many things are not being funded.

There's no money, I think we all need to understand the reality of that.

Hawk
Actually, there has to be more money that one could fathom. With taxes as high as they are, there has to be a serious amount of $$$ being collected.

It is just a matter of where it is spent.
sp_nyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 05:09 AM   #16
UpstateIrish
Member
 
UpstateIrish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
Actually, there has to be more money that one could fathom. With taxes as high as they are, there has to be a serious amount of $$$ being collected.

It is just a matter of where it is spent.
Cali is completely out of money. They tried to pass an $18 dollar car tax to keep the parks up and running but that proposition failed. It would be interesting if the citizens of the states actually voted on where the money should go rather than the reps. I know Republic vs. Democracy but for Parks, perhaps the public good should be actually voted on by the public.
__________________
Yo Rondeau!
(Polish phrase said after every hike meaning "nice driveway" regarding the path just taken)
http://www.eastwesthike.com
UpstateIrish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 09:34 AM   #17
redhawk
Senior Resident Curmudgeon
 
redhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: In My Memories
Posts: 10,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
Actually, there has to be more money that one could fathom. With taxes as high as they are, there has to be a serious amount of $$$ being collected.

It is just a matter of where it is spent.
No, that's inaccurate. For years and years money was "spent" on various things based on the "projected" income from taxes. In most cases these "expenditures" were actually loans, and taxes that were being collected were being used to repay these loans. Budgets were also based on projected income. Sure there was a lot of pork but the residents of the areas receiving the pork (pretty much everyone) never complained because it gave the appearance of benefiting them in some way. After all, the "jobs created" (The politicians mantra") in building the new park for people to walk their dogs had to be a good thing, right? No one complains about THEIR pork, only other peoples pork. As far as pork goes, for most taxpayers, the money that is spent in the Adirondack Park would be classified as pork. At any rate, in good times based of projected income, what we really had was deficit spending.

All this was fine as long as the taxes, fees, etc, collected was able to keep up with the interest on the loans, but the principle kept riing through more spending.

Then the economy tanked. real Estate went to hell, property values wenbt to hell, jobs were lost, so Real and property taxes took a hit. People were unable to continue to purchase the things they did before or travel as much so sales and gasoline taxes were also reduced drastically. Now the states, cities, counties, nation were caught in the same situation that most citizens and small businesses (and as we know from current events large corporations as well). Lot's of debt and reduced income.

So, no, there actually isn't any money. Not enough to pay debt or even to fund what was funded in the past. HELLO!! REALITY!!

So now the powers that be have to do something about it. Cut back on a MAJORITY of the services that used to be provided, trim the work force, take the bloat out of the economy and get lean and mean.

BUT, The same people who allowed the situation to get to where is is by deficit spending now don't have the stones to stand up and make the tough cuts across the board that need to be done. And the American public doesn't want any cuts in whatever their particular thing is, whether it's their salary or being deprived of or having to pay for or pay more for particular services.

Personally last year when everyone was up in arms over the park closures I found it interesting that there seemed to be a bigger outcry over that then there was over the cuts to education and to necessary services like fire and police. Personally, as much as I love the outdoors, I think that the funding for that should be way at the bottom of the list of priorities. Sadly, I was not surprised because it only bore out the cynicism I have for the American public.

Now, I'm wondering when the reality will set in and Americans will get their heads out of the sand. Just read that SUV sales are the largest percentage of cars sold in the past year, at the same time that everyone is complaining about the economy.

Oh Well.

"No Virginia, There is no Santa Claus"

Hawk
__________________
"If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson
redhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 09:47 AM   #18
DSettahr
ɹǝqɯǝɯ
 
DSettahr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by sp_nyp View Post
Actually, there has to be more money that one could fathom. With taxes as high as they are, there has to be a serious amount of $$$ being collected.

It is just a matter of where it is spent.
In addition to what Hawk states, a lot of state funding before the market tanked came from investments and interest. When the economy took a dive, suddenly governments found themselves with a lot less money to spend.

I also agree with Hawk in principle on where our priorities should lie in terms of what to spend our tax dollars on. I don't advocate closing parks, but I do believe that if we, as a society, can step up and police ourselves, clean up after ourselves, enjoy the outdoors responsibly, and if those of us with the dedication and know-how can help others to do the same, we'd find that it's possible for us to enjoy the outdoors at much less tax payer expense.
DSettahr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 09:47 AM   #19
stripperguy
Hangin' by a thread
 
stripperguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Schenectady, NY
Posts: 3,711
And yet...see this Times Union article.
stripperguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2011, 01:28 PM   #20
stripperguy
Hangin' by a thread
 
stripperguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Schenectady, NY
Posts: 3,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by backwoodsman View Post
The money for that was taken from a special fund wasn't it, seems like a good and solid purchase for the future.

Funding for park maintenance is a totally separate thing isn't it?
Yes, but the previous administration (I can say that, now) had swept various accounts, including EPF.
Perhaps we'll have a return to environmentally responsible accounting...
stripperguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.