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Old 10-04-2021, 12:43 PM   #41
montcalm
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Wow - that's great news. Hopefully we get some nuts!

I was just reading the ACF was calling the tree "functionally extinct", but that doesn't seem to be true. I think there are enough resistant trees out there they could be repopulated.
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Old 10-04-2021, 01:03 PM   #42
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Last I knew, the wheat gene added to the chestnut genome for blight resistance is about ready to be approved...Maybe future generations can enjoy chestnuts roasting on an open fire that smell like fresh baked bread
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Old 10-25-2021, 08:41 AM   #43
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According to one of my hiking friends, his grandparents worked as caretakers at the old Whitehouse. His uncle told him that his grandfather had planted a small orchard worth of apple trees not far from where the old chimney is and that you could still find some in the woods. We went looking a few years ago and couldn't find any. Had anyone run across this?

I'm assuming that by now, any apple trees would be descended from the originals.
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Old 11-08-2021, 02:54 PM   #44
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I think I saw a young hybrid chestnut today.

The leaves looked very much like American Chestnut but were not all that long. Maybe 4-5" at most, about an inch wide.

The bark looked exactly like this picture of the Chinese Chestnut:

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/comparison/

There was no fruit or burs or anything, so I'm not sure that's what it was. Sure looked like a blend of those characteristics.

It's planted in a park, so it could be any sort of weird cultivar.

Last edited by montcalm; 11-08-2021 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:34 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
I think I saw a young hybrid chestnut today.

The leaves looked very much like American Chestnut but were not all that long. Maybe 4-5" at most, about an inch wide.

The bark looked exactly like this picture of the Chinese Chestnut:

http://dendro.cnre.vt.edu/comparison/

There was no fruit or burs or anything, so I'm not sure that's what it was. Sure looked like a blend of those characteristics.

It's planted in a park, so it could be any sort of weird cultivar.
Which park? A family friend (now deceased) planted chestnut saplings all around Roc back in the 70s hoping to bring them back. All eventually got the blight too. Every once in a while I will find a young one growing out of the original root from Larry's trees but it never matures.
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Old 11-08-2021, 04:48 PM   #46
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Mendon Ponds right next to the “east” pavilion.

The bark doesn’t look like AC. The tree looks strong and full. Shape looks like a young maple or oak. It might be something else in the Chestnut genus.
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Old 11-08-2021, 05:53 PM   #47
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Prob not one of Larrys. He put most in the Penfield, brighton, city area.
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Old 11-08-2021, 06:59 PM   #48
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No this looks like it was planted by someone in employ, and it doesn't look all that old.

I was just surprised to see the leaf shape, but then was baffled by the weird bark and small size of the leaves.

I've personally known of these hybrids (if that's what it is) for a few years, and they're not new. It's the first one I've seen in real life though. Makes me hopeful that we'll see the genetically modified or resistance bred ACs being planted. If I had the space for such a tree I'd plant one.
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:02 AM   #49
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https://youtu.be/TksLHWB9Wbk

A few interesting points about American Chestnut range.

Apparently, except for maybe small patches, it was not a very abundant tree in NY, and certainly not in northern, NY.

He talks a little about about its preference for well-drained soil and mountains tops, etc in the south, but also seems to ring true for the north and some historical naming of areas such as "Chestnut Ridge" where perhaps there was the proper conditions for significant stands.
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Old 12-19-2021, 11:30 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montcalm View Post
https://youtu.be/TksLHWB9Wbk

A few interesting points about American Chestnut range.

Apparently, except for maybe small patches, it was not a very abundant tree in NY, and certainly not in northern, NY.

He talks a little about about its preference for well-drained soil and mountains tops, etc in the south, but also seems to ring true for the north and some historical naming of areas such as "Chestnut Ridge" where perhaps there was the proper conditions for significant stands.
Wow! Great presentation! A whole different perspective contrary to everything I have heard or read. And somehow makes me feel better.
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Old 12-19-2021, 11:41 AM   #51
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Certainly the Chestnut Blight was an ecological disaster, but it was probably more horrific as viewed from the POV of humans, because we had some emotional attachment to the trees.

Because we value the nuts, and the trees are long-lived and large, we tend to have a perhaps different lens than if this happened to something like witchhobble, which we'd probably appreciate in some sense.

Personally I think one of the most interesting things about AC is how long-lived it is/was. Hemlock is probably the only thing I can think of that has the ability to live as long (although, probably not anymore). We tend to think of Oaks and Sugar Maples as long-lived trees, but even the most ancient of those is but a middle-aged AC.

There's also a lot of speculation on how native Americans managed the forests for food and wildlife production, if in fact they did. It seems probable but the evidence just isn't written. But I know if I were living a primitive life and AC was a resource available it would be one of my top choices, especially compared to acorns which need to be leached of their tannins.

I don't know much about the fire resistance of AC, but it seems it must have had a fair bit to be present in such old form in oak forests. Hickory, OTOH, is a bit of a mystery to me as it is less fire resistant, yet still seems to persist in these forest types. Anyway, all 3 of those nut trees would be important not only as a food source for natives, but also for wildlife - probably better to eat a tasty deer fat on acorns than the acorns themselves.
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Old 12-19-2021, 10:11 PM   #52
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It made for many desirable hardwood moldings in older homes....
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Old 12-20-2021, 07:52 AM   #53
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Everything from furniture to fence posts...
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Old 12-21-2021, 10:26 AM   #54
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FWIW, "dominance" and "abundance" are not necessarily the same thing. Although I thought the video on American chestnut was interesting, the host uses the terms interchangeably, which, intentional or not, can be misleading
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Old 12-21-2021, 08:20 PM   #55
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Not sure I follow that - I mean abundance would be perhaps a more vague way of saying dominant.

I don't know any strict notation in regard to this.

Either way, I generally look at numbers. 25% of a forest could be dominant, or co-dominant, and certainly abundant.

The forests I look at tend to have greater 25% of certain species within a particular area. These might be called stands, but some are so large I would contend they are a forest. I tend to see up to 70-80% of a particular tree in a lot of cases and that tends to be dependent on slope, exposure, soil, locale and elevation.

But at any rate, what he was saying was that number would be much less, although I tend to think that would be spotty, and there were probably stands, or even small forests that were probably in that high range (like up to 80%), in which case they'd be abundant, and also dominant in that smaller area. Looking at the overall forest on a larger scale, you see less abundance, and no real dominance. But I think these these generalizations are not all that useful except perhaps when looking at range.
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Old 12-22-2021, 07:37 AM   #56
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"Dominant," "Co-Dominant," "Intermediate," and "Suppressed" are terms used to describe the vertical position of the crown of an individual tree within the forest canopy, typically within an even-aged stand (crown dynamics and the implications of a where a crown falls within the vertical forest structure get a bit more complicated with un-even aged forests). The terms have nothing to do with the population of that species of tree (whether by numbers or percentage).

https://openoregon.pressbooks.pub/fo...crown-classes/

You could have only a single tree of a particular species within a forest, yet it it could still occupy a dominant position within the canopy.

In the video, he appears to be using "dominant" as a synonym for "abundant," like St. Regis says. It's not an egregious misuse of the word, and in the context I'd say it's not even unintentionally all that misleading, but I can still see the potential for confusion.
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Old 12-22-2021, 08:37 AM   #57
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Interesting. I don't think majority of layman would have known that or thought of it that way, I obviously didn't.



A picture of the concept.

Last edited by montcalm; 12-22-2021 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 12-22-2021, 08:44 AM   #58
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Seems even Cornell Botanists break this rule:

Quote:
The most abundant or largest species at a site are called dominant.

Because no two sites are exactly
alike in composition, a vegetation type cannot be precisely defined, but must include
some range of variability in which species are present, which are dominant, and their
relative abundance.

The species with high relative basal area
have trees that are large in trunk diameter or numerous, and are called the dominant
species in the stand.
https://ecommons.cornell.edu/bitstre...pdf;sequence=1

This has been my bible, but apparently I need to find some new scripture.
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Old 12-22-2021, 09:32 AM   #59
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Try this as an example...we are walking through a mature hardwood forest and want to record some information. We find a representative area and set up a sample plot and start collecting data...two huge white oaks take up 60% of the areal cover in the tree layer. Three smaller-crowned shagbark hickory trees make up 15% areal cover and six still smaller sugar maples account for another 10%. The total % areal cover of the tree layer in this example is 85%. These data show that white oak is the dominant tree species in this plot. However, white oak is not the most abundant tree...that would be sugar maple.

If you want to 'play' with these data (and I'm not suggesting the host of the video is doing that) you could say that there were 3x as many sugar maple trees than white oak, which can give some people the impression that the tree layer was dominated by maples, when that was not the case at all. It was dominated by white oak....Abundance is a quantifier. Dominance is essentially a qualifier.
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Old 12-22-2021, 10:29 AM   #60
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Basal area is still a quantifier, though- the surface area of the cross section of the tree at breast height. You could theoretically have enough small sugar maple trees in the understory that their combined basal area exceeds that of the few oaks that dominate the overstory.
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