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Old 08-25-2020, 04:03 PM   #21
montcalm
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Here's my suggestion that you may have missed from the first post: take the taxpayer money budgeted to advertise the NY outdoors - including the ADKs, and use it to hire more Rangers or increase education for those using the outdoors.
This is fine and dandy but I think the signage is targeted at a much larger citizen base. I also doubt the budget is very high (don't have the numbers really).

It may not occur to you, but there is a LARGE portion of NY residents who either don't know about the Adirondacks or have never been there. They still pay taxes. While I think the issue of preserving the park lies with our government, remember, we ARE the government. And sometimes people have to go above and beyond what government can provide in terms of resources to protect what they care about. This is often because we aren't the democratic majority and there are so many other issues trying to grab attention. I'd love to see what fraction of a fraction of a percent of our tax money goes to environmental issues (I'm talking cumulative over history).

I've seen this time and time again and can't echo enough how much not-for-profit, community based organizations have been, and will continue to lead these efforts for those who are concerned. The DEC is almost always willing to work with them, except in cases where they want development that is conflicting with protections of the Forest Preserve. In those cases it's a matter of the laborious process of amending the constitution and/or working changes into a UMP revision, depending on what is being proposed.

I follow and support a number of groups who do this, and our system is purposely set up to make it extremely difficult to make any major changes to Forest Preserve lands. Other lands have less and/or different restrictions. Fundamentally it goes to the idea that lands added into the Forest Preserve should return to primeval forests before the Adirondacks (and Catskills) were ravaged by the ax and fire.

I believe DT is correct about Candice and Hemlock history, and the City of Rochester still owns the dams which control water level. They also still have personnel who patrol the lakes.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:36 PM   #22
vchops
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I was there the first week of Aug and we took away and old rusty grill and rusty pliers. I heard about the fire from the Forest Ranger when we arrived. I didnít see him once after that. We were sure he would pop by to check on us but he didnít. We left some wood for the next group and also pulled a bunch of nails from the trees around the fire. The poor trees were hacked from axes and knives.

This was my first time there with my 16 year old son and cousin. I hope it sticks around and people gain some more respect for nature.

This is my first post, my name is Rob and Iím looking forward to hangin around
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Old 08-28-2020, 08:02 PM   #23
SteveSam
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Originally Posted by vchops View Post
I was there the first week of Aug and we took away and old rusty grill and rusty pliers. I heard about the fire from the Forest Ranger when we arrived. I didnít see him once after that. We were sure he would pop by to check on us but he didnít. We left some wood for the next group and also pulled a bunch of nails from the trees around the fire. The poor trees were hacked from axes and knives.

This was my first time there with my 16 year old son and cousin. I hope it sticks around and people gain some more respect for nature.

This is my first post, my name is Rob and Iím looking forward to hangin around
Welcome Rob! I hope you, your son, and cousin enjoyed your trip.
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Old 08-28-2020, 09:31 PM   #24
vchops
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Welcome Rob! I hope you, your son, and cousin enjoyed your trip.
Thanks, it was amazing, I fell in love and learned not to bring my Hobie PA12 🤪. I bought my first canoe LOL
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Old 09-01-2020, 11:31 AM   #25
Lucky13
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The City also employed a watershed manager who had a staff who would patrol both lakes for swimmers, boats too big, etc. The manager looked at proposals in the watershed for development or road maintenance etc and insured that impact on water quality was minimized. Sort of like the Fulton Chain Association, but of course the watershed inspector had some clout and actually accomplished maintenance of drinking water quality for years, the FCA, not so much.
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Old 09-26-2020, 10:05 AM   #26
Hendrickson
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I was the guy who had to evacuate in the middle of the night because of the fire on Spruce Island--along with my two young daughters. They have never been so scared in their lives.

There we were, getting ready to turn off the headlamps and crash, when we hear people screaming at us to get off the island. They had paddled across from their site when they saw the flames, and they warned us that it was moving fast. The smoke started coming into our site, and I sent my girls down to the canoe with our dog and told them to wait while I grabbed as much gear as I could. I lived in Southern California for several years, and I know how fast fires can move, especially when the ground is bone-dry (as it was around Lake Lila in early July). While my daughters implored me to move as fast as I could, real panic in their voices, I set a new world record for packing. Our watchful neighbors hung around and kept an eye on the kids while I threw everything into a pile in our boat. As we paddled into the dark, I saw that the flames were still far down at the other end of the island, and that we had had more time than I thought. But those flames were a good six feet high, and they were raging. I fully expected the island to be at least half-consumed by morning.

As it happened, the breeze died down a little while later, and the fire didn't travel much farther. But all it would have taken for the lives of two beautiful girls to be in real danger was a strong wind and a vacant campsite across the lake. If the conditions had been just a little worse and nobody had been there to warn us, we might not have known about the fire until it was nipping at our heels. We probably would have gotten out in time, but at the cost of our gear and their future sense of security in the woods.

My kids are too young to know the difference between a truly life-threatening emergency and a close call. They were terrified. Even though I did my best to make a snug camp for us at a nearby site that night, my older daughter couldn't sleep until dawn. She's a tough kid, and she was happy to spend another night on the lake. We've continued camping and paddling this summer, even though the evidence of bad behavior is everywhere. It's not like they were traumatized. But with all the awful stuff going on in the world right now, she didn't deserve to have her special trip to Lake Lila marred by this experience. The world is scary enough for a kid right now.

So, to whoever thought it was no big deal to have an illegal campfire at the north end of Spruce Island, or to shoot some bottle rockets into the woods, up yours.
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Old 09-26-2020, 01:40 PM   #27
montcalm
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Man, what a story! Glad you got away safe Hendrickson. Also glad the fire did not entirely damage the Island.

I was having similar concerns earlier this summer when it seemed my neighbors were setting off fireworks every night and everything was tinder dry. Luckily they didn't set anything on fire but I was checking the yard before bed.

Last edited by montcalm; 09-26-2020 at 09:00 PM..
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:42 PM   #28
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I have heard of cases wherein the ranger says "move your site now or get a fine". I do not know of any actual fines that have been imposed for the 150 foot rule, but I would not doubt that there have been some. I suppose a lot may depend on how egregious the violation is, in combination with other offenses noted at the site, not to mention how many other violations the ranger may have encountered on that day.

I do know of at least one case however, where a large group of friends on a guided trip exceeded the allowed max size of 8 persons in a wilderness area. They did split into two groups, each with a different guide, but they tried to travel and hang out as one large group instead of camping one mile apart per the regulation. The friends insisted on congregating together even though the guides knew they could not do so legally. They were politely warned by a ranger twice to split up. Caught the third time, each guide received a ticket for $100.
This summer I saw a group of 10 camped at a site on LTL. I had a friendly conversation with them and mentioned the rule. They said they didn't know about it and had camped there for 3 nights and no one else said anything to them. I don't know how they fit on that site. Considering there are ranger headquarters right there, I would say they are probably understaffed, over-stretched and have other fish to fry. I keep writing my State reps and re governor about increased funding for DEC rangers. I hope that whenever the State overcomes its budget problems, they will address it. Until then I expect to see these and other issues continue.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:07 PM   #29
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I keep writing my State reps and re governor about increased funding for DEC rangers. I hope that whenever the State overcomes its budget problems, they will address it. Until then I expect to see these and other issues continue.
Albany has stubbornly refused to hire the necessary number of Rangers since long before the current budget problem. It has nothing to do with the budget; Albany has just decided this is how they want to manage the area.

If Covid disappeared tomorrow, and if Bill Gates gave the state $10 Billion out of the goodness of his heart to eliminate the budget gap, we would not get any additional Rangers.
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Old 09-28-2020, 10:20 PM   #30
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This past July I was fortunate to take 2 trips to Lake Lila. I camped on Lila for a few nights the second week of July with my wife and son until the Horse Flies got the best of them. The last week of July, myself and a long time coworker camped on Lila for 3 nights. I first sank my toes into the sandy beach at the ďput inĒ over 25 years ago.
While itís one of my favorite places , itís also becoming a favorite place of uninformed, ignorant and very selfish campers.
On my first trip this year, as we launched , my wife commented about the large amount of white smoke coming from Spruce Island. As we paddled closer, it was apparent that there was a forest fire on the west end of the island. A later conversation with a camper , who evacuated during the middle of the night confirmed this. Luckily he was awoken by a fellow camper across the way at a nearby site. Also spoke with an Assistant Ranger who said either fireworks or a rogue campfire started this. Is was put out with portable pumps and hoses..
On my second trip we took one of the open sandy beach sites. The fire pit was ripped apart and had been extended onto the ďhollow groundĒ. There were fish carcasses, cigarette butts and a paper plate in the fire. The site was littered with live tree branches, many small trees and been slashed with an axe and several smaller live trees were cut down. I also picked up many butts out of the water. Last several trips before this year there were also met with nighttime fireworks and drunken yelling during the night.
My concern is that my son will not experience the same place with his son that I did 25 years ago. This year with COVID, Im sure more people have flocked to more remote places. I realize that Rangers canít police every site in the Adirondacks but how do we stop this behavior?
What, would you say about 10% of people don't realize that recently cut green trees don't burn...and cutting the trees makes the area less beautiful than it was before they cut them? I think we need to have an IQ test for voting...and for allowing people to camp in the forest preserve.
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