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Old Growth Forest Hike Suggestions

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  • #16
    Originally posted by montcalm View Post

    - Michael Kudish claims there are 1000's of acres in St. Regis Canoe Area. One area to the southeast of the east side of Fish Pond. I believe this must contain the esker that the upper carry trail around Mud Pond takes because there are some monster white pine and hemlock there, and probably other stuff that I didn't even notice. He also claims there is extensive acreage on the lower southeastern slope of St. Regis mountain. The trail climbs up East-Northeast so it probably wouldn't be hard to access this area. There's a designated campsite there about 1.5 mi in from Keese Mill Rd.

    Studying the old fire maps - it does look like the section between the Truck trail and Mud pond are old growth. I believe you can see a good portion of it just from the trail - Kudish pointed out some directly from the Truck trail and the pics are in the presentation above. It looks like the esker did not burn - this whole area, including most of St. Regis mountain was burned over. It looks like the marsh around Mud pond stopped the fire from spreading up the esker. On the west side, I'm not sure what stopped the fire there, but it nearly engulfed the entire shoreline of Fish pond. It looks like the south shore of Fish Pond where the lean-to is may be old growth. At minimum, it was not burned.

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    • #17
      It does look like most of Pigeon Lake Wilderness area is first growth (unlogged, not necessarily old).

      On the northern portion near Moose Lake, Herkimer/Hamilton Co. line is the border - to the east was considered "virgin" at the time the state made it forest preserve in 1892 (unsure when they actually acquired it). The other boundary runs roughly from the southwest corner of Queer lake to the east corner of Cascade. The rest of the area is contained and those lands extend on to Sargent Ponds WF.

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      • #18
        Saw a video last night where some old-timer with a long white beard explained the history of the forest going back 200-300 years just by reading the ground. Fascinating. I'll see if I can find the link.
        Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

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        • #19
          Tom Wessels?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by montcalm View Post
            Tom Wessels?

            Yes On Utube


            "Reading the Forested Landscape" part 1


            New England Forests
            Never Argue With An Idiot. They Will Drag You Down To Their Level And Beat You With Experience.

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            • #21
              Yeah, there are 4 of them with him. I recommend them all, all great. The co-evolved species may not be as practical as the "Reading the forested Landscape" series.
              Last edited by montcalm; 02-08-2022, 08:38 AM.

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              • #22
                I highly recommend this:




                the audio is not great and Kudish is a nut, but there's a lot of great info in this presentation. I wish he'd publish that damned book he wrote on the subject.

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                • #23
                  A lot of good information here! We can put Ampersand on the list of hikes to do this summer. The Landis Arboretum sounds great because my wife can be part of the trip!!! They have a really funny facebook feed too!

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                  • #24
                    Pine Orchard (mentioned a couple times) is a really easy hike.

                    There's also an old growth patch of red spruce not too far away near the Goldmine Stream waterfall if you are down that way. McMartin claims there is a lot of old growth off of Powely-Piseco Rd.

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                    • #25
                      I have to agree that Kudish was a nut. When I was a student at PSC, one winter outdoor Dendrology lab, he picked a dry brown Cattail , stated you can eat these. He then took a bite out of it, and started to spit out the dry seeds. I think you can eat them when they are green ?

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                      • #26
                        [QUOTE=Tug Hill;288923]I have to agree that Kudish was a nut. When I was a student at PSC, one winter outdoor Dendrology lab, he picked a dry brown Cattail , stated you can eat these. He then took a bite out of it, and started to spit out the dry seeds. I think you can eat them when they are green ?[/QUOTE

                        When green you can boil young green cattails before the "tails" turn brown and eat like a very thin corn on the cob. you can also eat the growing shoots... just pull up from the center growth leaves in spring and a pure white core will come up, crunchy good, tastes much like cucumber. I undestand that you can also eat the roots, roasted or dried, but I have never tried that.
                        "Now I see the secret of making the best person, it is to grow in the open air and to eat and sleep with the earth." -Walt Whitman

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                        • #27
                          He was probably partially joking. Who knows - everyone I know who had him for Dendro loved him.

                          He makes some good points regarding first growth and old growth, although I'd tend to agree more with the NYNHP definition of the age of old growth being about half the age of the oldest living trees in that environment. Meaning "old growth" doesn't *have* to be that old, relatively speaking. It's more about how mature the forest is...

                          But Kudish points out some good environments where most trees simply won't get old, even if the species could (I'd tend to think the summit red oaks in the eastern ADKs are the best examples of this). So this creates a bit of mess - and "first growth" makes more sense (although some will argue the presence of oak means it is not first growth).

                          So I think he's on to something, and I think that it we could really get bogged down with these definitions.

                          Question then becomes, what it means to you? I'm sure some could care less, but this kind of stuff could be the most precious forest we have, and we probably have more than anywhere in the NE, maybe even the east coast, in the park.

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                          • #28
                            Yes, I’m pretty sure he was joking around. It was funny watching him spitting the seeds out and they were floating in the air. And yes, I did enjoy his classes.

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                            • #29


                              This is a pretty good tool as well. If you look at the layer called "Significant Natural Communities" there are number of things listed in the park. Some are old growth, some first growth, some are just high quality or rare communities e.g. Appalachian Oak-Pine forest on the east side of the Tongue of Lake George.

                              I think it's missing a number of things in all categories, but it's a interesting tool if you want to check out different environs.
                              Last edited by montcalm; 02-10-2022, 07:54 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Just wanted to say thanks, montcalm, for the great info you've posted! This is a fascinating thread; I've learned a lot.

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