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Old 09-23-2016, 10:04 AM   #1
bigriverbob
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West Canada

Anybody been up to the west Canada lately, and if so how was the fishing, and any decent sized trout
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:10 AM   #2
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Anybody been up to the west Canada lately, and if so how was the fishing, and any decent sized trout
If your referring to West Canada Lake be advised that the lake has been "dead, dead, dead" for years... Void of any sign of life whatsoever. Not as much as a polliwog swimming around that pond. The Ph level's wouldn't support a fly less much anything else...

If your referring to West Canada Creek that's a different story provided your in a rural area that's well stocked by ENCON. And even then, I wouldn't put much stock in the stocking reports for the most part...

Acid rain has put a serious crimp in trout pond production in the back country.

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Old 09-28-2016, 04:11 PM   #3
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Our Adirondack lakes are naturally acidic due to the surrounding forest.
I've taken water samples from northern Quebec lakes that registered way less than seven on the acidic scale.
The dearth of big brook trout is a result of over fishing, simple as that.
Jim
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:09 PM   #4
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"Our Adirondack lakes are naturally acidic due to the surrounding forest." - Jim

It's true, the evergreens contribute much to an acidic level. Pollution from acid rain from our neighbors up North has contributed to PCB content and thus fish consumption advisories. However, most of the pollution is in the muck on the bottom so if its not disturbed (as in the "reclamation" process) it will remain fairly benign to aquatic species. However, different bodies of water and estuaries have different problems and reasons for lack of aquatic life.

Of course we always have room for other "expert" opinions and/or facts.
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Old 09-28-2016, 05:21 PM   #5
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ACID RAIN, CAUSES, EFFECTS AND CONTROL STRATEGIES, now free on kindle.

https://www.amazon.com/ACID-CAUSES-E...id+rain+causes

What I understand is that the igneous rocks of the Adirondacks lack any ability to chemically neutralize acid that has fallen in rain. The decomposing organic matter in the soil is also naturally acidic, so it only makes the problem worse. if the rocks were made of limestone instead, we would be all set.
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:03 AM   #6
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Our Adirondack lakes are naturally acidic due to the surrounding forest.
I've taken water samples from northern Quebec lakes that registered way less than seven on the acidic scale.
The dearth of big brook trout is a result of over fishing, simple as that.
Jim

So remote lakes like Brooktrout, Horn and a hundred others that were hardly fished were void due to overfishing?
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Old 09-29-2016, 12:50 PM   #7
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"It's true, the evergreens contribute much to an acidic level. Pollution from acid rain from our neighbors up North has contributed to PCB content and thus fish"

Acid rain is sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide = sulfuric and nitric acid. Exhaust fumes from smokestacks and tailpipes. Both acids occur naturally as well.

PCB's are Polychlorinated Biphenyls. PCB's are manmade. Monsanto was the only North American manufacturer and produced almost half the PCB's worldwide.

Neither acid rain or PCB's are related or a symptom of the other.

The prevailing winds in this part of the world blow from southwest to northeast. Acid rain comes from the midwest. Here in Ontario we have acid pollution from the same sources as you. It is less a problem here because of an underlying bed of marble within the Canadian Shield that neutralizes the acid.
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Old 09-29-2016, 03:40 PM   #8
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Gman,

Here's a few more facts from your government.

For the first 25 years of their use, few concerns were raised about any negative impacts of PCB compounds. In the late 1960s, however, the discovery of PCBs in birds in Sweden and the poisoning of 1200 people by rice oil containing PCBs in Japan both focussed public attention on the problem. By 1972, scientific evidence suggested that PCBs posed a serious potential hazard to the environment and human health. While both the manufacture and most non-electrical uses of PCBs were banned in Canada in 1977, the 1985 accidental spill of PCBs being transported near Kenora, Ontario, has again raised public concern - this time over the safe transport and disposal of this hazardous material.

Because their hazardous nature has only recently been understood, PCBs have been routinely disposed of over the fears, without any precautions being taken.


As a result, large volumes of PCBs have been introduced into the environment through open burning or incomplete incineration; by vapourization from paints, coatings and plastics; by direct entry or leakage into sewers and streams; by dumping in non-secure landfill sites and municipal disposal facilities; and by other disposal techniques (e.g. ocean dumping) which did not destroy material. Despite regulation, some PCBs have been illegally dumped through ignorance, through negligence or willfully. Of the 40,000 tonnes of PCBs imported into Canada, just over 24,000 tonnes can be accounted for today. Of this amount, 61 percent has been found in electrical transformers still in use, another 12 percent in electrical capacitors, and 27 percent in storage waiting for disposal. Apart from these inventoried amounts, most of the remaining 16,000 tonnes of PCBs is assumed to have already been dispersed in the environment in various fashions. Because of this dispersal over the years, traces of PCBs can be found in all reaches of Canada and in virtually every living organism, including humans. This picture is the same around the world.

Taken from "The PCB Story," Canadian Council of Resource and Environment Ministers, Toronto, Ontario, 1986.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:10 PM   #9
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In Canada, the major sources of sulphur dioxide emissions are non-ferrous metal smelters, followed by coal-fired generators. Motor vehicles and, to a lesser extent, coal-fired generators, are the major sources of nitrogen oxides.

About half the wet sulphate deposition in eastern Canada is estimated to come from the United States, while about ten percent of the deposition in the northeastern United States comes from Canada.


The damage caused by acid rain deposition occurs in environments that cannot tolerate acidification. Many species of fish, insects, aquatic plants and bacteria develop reproduction difficulties. Some even die. The decline in the population of any of these aquatic organisms affects the food chain. Dwindling populations of insects and small aquatic plants and animals are especially serious because the entire food chain is affected.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:17 PM   #10
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Gman is correct when he mentioned the prevailing winds:

In eastern Canada, the most severe air pollution events occur in summer. It's caused mainly by industrial sources that have been blown in from the mid-western United States. In fact, during the summer months in Windsor (Ontario), around 70% of this smog is directly related to industrial sources coming in from over the United States border.
Even worse, around 90% of the acid rain that reaches southern Nova Scotia also originates from industrial sources within the United States. Most of the acidifying agents in the air bypass the major cities in southern Ontario and Québec.
You may be surprised to learn that the southern parts of Nova Scotia has the worst acid rain events in all of Canada. This occurs mainly in the summer. The main area where this acid rain falls is within Kejimkujik National Park.
In eastern Canada, most of these smog events occur from mid-spring through till mid-autumn. As a general rule, the hotter the weather is, the more pollution there will be. Why? Well, most of the air pollution in Canada during heat wave conditions is caused by the frequent influx of hot humid air coming in from the United States (U.S). Unfortunately, this air is normally quite polluted since it passes over the industrial regions of the mid-western U.S before continuing on its journey towards the south eastern corner of Canada.
So if you happen to travel to regions where air pollution in Canada is high during a heat wave, then please be careful. You don't want to end up with respiratory problems.
An interesting case of air pollution in Canada occurred in the city of Sunbury, Ontario from the late nineteenth century to the 1950's. The region around Sunbury recorded toxic levels of atmospheric SO2 due to intensive iron, copper and nickel mining practices. As a consequence, many forests in the region suffered due to acid rain. Since the 1960s, there has been a 90% decrease in the amount of SO2 emissions and eight million trees have been planted to replace the ones lost.
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Old 09-29-2016, 04:24 PM   #11
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So remote lakes like Brooktrout, Horn and a hundred others that were hardly fished were void due to overfishing?
Glen,
Read the history.
The account of French Louie detailed pack baskets filled with trout that were sold to downstate markets.
Jim

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Old 09-29-2016, 08:39 PM   #12
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Glen,
Read the history.
The account of French Louie detailed pack baskets filled with trout that were sold to downstate markets.
Jim


And because I heard it in barroom/breakrom/television/internet / or a 40 year old bbok it must be true??? Because it's chronicled in a book that old it must be true?? I'm speechless.............
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Old 09-29-2016, 09:42 PM   #13
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My understanding is that the acid rain that rains down here is from sulphur emisissions that come from the giant smokestacks you see when flying west, protruding over the ohio/mississippi river valleys blowing east. They mix with the aluminum present here in the soil and acidify our ponds
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:00 PM   #14
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and the fish consumption issue is due to the mercury preset in the soil getting leached out by the sulpher - this coming from someone who has no concept of chemistry, but read it somewhere...
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Old 09-29-2016, 10:00 PM   #15
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They may still be recovering, but not all of the lakes in the West Canada Lakes are still "dead lakes."
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Old 09-29-2016, 11:18 PM   #16
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Thanks for prevailing good sense Neil.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:48 AM   #17
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Holy cow Shultzy that post is just slightly shorter than a Russian novel!
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:17 AM   #18
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Thanks for prevailing good sense Neil.
Law and order leads to prosperity, happiness and the greatest good for the greatest numbers. I think I learned that from Adam Smith. Or was it David Hume?
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Old 09-30-2016, 02:44 PM   #19
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The dearth of big brook trout is a result of over fishing, simple as that.
Jim
I beg to differ...or, can we agree to disagree: In my opinion, the dearth of big brook trout in Adirondack waters is certainly not a direct, or any other result of "over fishing"... It is a result of acid rain, and nothing but acid rain...

In the early 1950's, if not sooner, scientists began to discover the presence of sulfur dioxide emissions in the atmosphere coming via the coal burning industry of the mid-west. The prevailing winds along the corn belt transported those emissions directly over the Adirondack's, and many other notable mountain ranges in northern New England and eastern Canada, which took the brunt of the contaminates... Now, 60 years later, those emissions, compounded by the burning of fossil fuels has resulted in Global Warming, the Greenhouse Effect, and now, Geo Stratospheric Engineering, (let's not even go there).

Let's not get too scientific here, but acid rain is, and has been an acute problem in the Adirondack's for over 40+ years, if not more. The forest floor has a mercury embedment where the soil has little ability to neutralize acid before the snow and rain run off into lakes and streams with the spring snow melt.... Years ago ENCON tried the addition of "calcium" in back country waters which proved fruitless, and not cost effective....

BTW..Neutral water has a pH level of 7.0. Fish cannot survive in Adirondack waters with pH levels below 4.5 (equivalent of vinegar) and hundreds of lakes in the region are more acidic than that.

In closing... French Louie died in 1915 at the age of 84. His transporting of a few wooden back packs of fish (about 100 years ago) to Speculator or Indian Lake village, I'm quite certain, had no bearing whatsoever on the depletion of brookies in the Adirondacks.

Bluesman

And remember: "It's not about the kill, it's about the Adventure"

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Old 09-30-2016, 03:48 PM   #20
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And because I heard it in barroom/breakrom/television/internet / or a 40 year old bbok it must be true??? Because it's chronicled in a book that old it must be true?? I'm speechless.............
Chaser,
You are not the center of the universe.
Books are our link to the past, try reading one sometime.
It's been documented by more than one book of pack baskets filled with trout destined for sale in downstate markets.
Jim
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