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Old 07-17-2009, 12:58 PM   #21
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http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/a...WS05/307179932


This article also states that the highway follo wthe Rt 11 corridor
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Old 07-17-2009, 03:43 PM   #22
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Whoops, sorry about the mix up guys. I was told by a third party that it would go through Tupper Lake, and the northern portion of the park. He sent me the link today (one of the above links), and it is clear that it would not be through the park. I should have looked into it myself before having posted. I'm sorry about that.

That being said, is such a highway really still necessary?
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Old 07-18-2009, 01:20 PM   #23
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a pretty drive, but not one I'd want to take regularly.
Sorry, hobbitling, I have to disagree. An atrociously UGLY drive through some of the poorest areas in the state. And it's even uglier when viewed from behind a line of trucks spewing diesel exhaust behind them. I went to school in Potsdam, and I have travelled Rt 11 (from Plattsburgh area) dozens of times. I also drove the other side (down to Watertown - the main route from Syracuse and all of western NY) far more times than I care to remember. Either direction, the drive is painfully slow (despite being fairly straight with good visibility), unattractive, and scarily unsafe. The locals mosey along, the truckers are tired, and the students just blast right through it all. Add 6-8 months of icy roads, blowing snow (there are no mountains to block it, after all), and this road is one long disaster waiting to happen. A highway is intrinsically more safe, as everyone is going roughly the same speed.

From the economic side, state funding would add some signage directing traffic to gas stations, food, lodging - right now it's pretty much a crapshoot for all of that. Shop owners might get some more business and travellers might actually find the trip enjoyable. And poor Malone might see an upswing in its economy.

I have driven extensively through all of New England and all of NY except the NYC area. I can think of no other rural area that needs a highway as much, nor can I think of any other area where the local impact would be as benign and easy to implement.

Of course, this highway has been "on the table" for how many years??
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:57 PM   #24
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Me thinks that it all has to do with homeland security enabling a quick response to Canadian agression.
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Old 07-19-2009, 02:39 PM   #25
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So here's a good one that's been in the news a few times: There's a new push for a "Rooftop Highway", which would be a 4-lane road connecting, at the minimum, Watertown with Champlain, and possibly stretching as far as Veremont, NH, or even Maine. This would most likely cut right through the ADK's, requiring the construction of another useless road. This is simply preposterous, IMHO, and completely unnessesary. Besides that fact that it wouldn't recieve much use, it would require the loss of more beautiful wilderness, and the waste of money required (estimated at 4 billion dollars), it would hurt the local economies of the ADK's. To support this argument, consider what happenened to all of the small storefronts and motels when the northway was put in.

Opinions??

OK - Here is my opinion. Take it for what it is worth as a City person who loves the ADK and NY Wilderness in General.

I think the biggest threat to the wilderness are the wilderness lovers and nature lovers who insist on building, not just roads, but lake side homes, cesspools, hobby farms and trample on the wilderness to the point that it is under real threat. Since the time of my childhood, I've seen not only an endless assault on the natural resources of the state by vacation homes and new residents, but also I've witnessed whole counties of wilderness succumb to sprawl and development including huge chunks of Orange County, Essex County, Ulster County, the Watertown area and the entire Lake Placid region.

I believe people should be restricted from living in these natural wilderness areas and that the development of Almanacks needs to strictly limited developed towns like Saranac, and within the 5 boroughs, where highly developed planning makes for man's footprint on nature to be greatly reduced compared to the damage by wilderness housing and development.


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Old 07-20-2009, 01:16 PM   #26
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I agree with the NYC dude. Why don't we just go ahead and attribute the problem to overpopulation. That is a huge problem, obviously.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:42 PM   #27
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Sorry, hobbitling, I have to disagree. An atrociously UGLY drive through some of the poorest areas in the state. ...
Disagreeing is the whole point of a forum. or else this would be a short conversation.

It may be a long (and therefore boring) drive, but I still think it's better than driving through urban sprawl with traffic lights every fifty feet and big box stores stretching to the horizon. Be glad you haven't had to drive near NYC. You'd be begging for some Route 11 after ten minutes.
At least there are rolling hills and farmland to look at. Though I do agree about the winter being brutal.

Have you considered audio books while driving?
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:58 PM   #28
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It's a little funny to hear NYC described as a place where "man's footprint on nature" is "greatly reduced."
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Old 07-20-2009, 02:21 PM   #29
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It's a little funny to hear NYC described as a place where "man's footprint on nature" is "greatly reduced."
It is. We use less carbon emissions, fewer water resources, and have a far less impact on the environment through sewage and waste management than either suburban or rural mode of living. Rural residences do the worse damage to nature of all lifestyle choices. NYers save the environment by living in an efficient and well designed human habitat without destroying the mountains or cutting homes into hillsides of natural habitat.

If the 8.3 million people in the city stretched out into the Adirondacks there wouldn't be a hillside left and the lakes would be all drained, let alone the damage to the aquifer and the sewage leakage.

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Old 07-20-2009, 02:52 PM   #30
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It's a little funny to hear NYC described as a place where "man's footprint on nature" is "greatly reduced."
I imagine that must mean per-capita footprint.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:49 PM   #31
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I just read a book entitled, "Why your world is about to get a whole lot smaller". The author, an oil economist, predicted 18 months ago that oil would hit 150 a barrel, which it did even though everyone thought he was crazy.

Now in his new book he's predicting 200 a barrel and beyond - next year. His opinion is that investing in infrastructures such as roads is merely throwing tomorrow's money at yesterday's cheap oil lifestyle. He predicts thousands of miles of empty highways that no one can afford to drive on.

And Mrbrooklyn is most likely right that rural living depends upon lots of cheap oil to keep it afloat as we know it now. That is, with lots of driving to and fro.
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Old 07-20-2009, 05:41 PM   #32
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Imagine what it will be like 50 to 100 years from now.
ugh, I'd rather not. They don't call economics the dismal science for nothing.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:53 PM   #33
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Disagreeing is the whole point of a forum. or else this would be a short conversation.

It may be a long (and therefore boring) drive, but I still think it's better than driving through urban sprawl with traffic lights every fifty feet and big box stores stretching to the horizon. Be glad you haven't had to drive near NYC. You'd be begging for some Route 11 after ten minutes.
At least there are rolling hills and farmland to look at. Though I do agree about the winter being brutal.

Have you considered audio books while driving?
Ha ha, okay, lol. You got me. I live near Albany now - traffic lights every fifty feet and big box stores well beyond the horizon. But really, this highway would be easy to build (it's really not wilderness), and it would provide easy access to the high peaks from the northern part of the state - i.e. Canada. They like wilderness too. And they bring money to NY. I still support a highway, even though I'd probably never ever use it.

Does anyone on this board actually live there?? What are the opinions of the locals??
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:21 PM   #34
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i.e. Canada. They like wilderness too. And they bring money to NY.
Hahaha! I average 2 cups of coffee and a roast beef sandwhich when I visit the Adirondacks. I gas up in Champlain so that's something maybe.

There's more wilderness in Canada than you can shake a whole faggot of sticks at but if you live in Montreal the HighPeaks are by far the best bang for the buck.
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Old 07-21-2009, 07:05 AM   #35
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What are the opinions of the locals??
Fix what exists
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:23 AM   #36
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Why don't we just go ahead and attribute the problem to overpopulation. That is a huge problem, obviously.
The overall decline in the economy of the north country will resolve this, hopefully before they break ground on expanding the soon-to-be unneeded extra lanes.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:25 AM   #37
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Exactly Kevin. That's also why I'm opposed to the Tupper Lake plan. Some of the residents from there say that the residents aren't interested in it either. I just want the ADK's to be significantly depopulated.

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It is. We use less carbon emissions, fewer water resources, and have a far less impact on the environment through sewage and waste management than either suburban or rural mode of living. Rural residences do the worse damage to nature of all lifestyle choices. NYers save the environment by living in an efficient and well designed human habitat without destroying the mountains or cutting homes into hillsides of natural habitat.

If the 8.3 million people in the city stretched out into the Adirondacks there wouldn't be a hillside left and the lakes would be all drained, let alone the damage to the aquifer and the sewage leakage.

Ruben
Just to comment...while it is certainly arguable that, per capita, people in cities don't destroy the environment as much as do people of a more rural lifestyle, may I just point out that 1.) people in the cities are dependent on rural life for food sources, and 2.) many of the really rich people from places such as NYC are the ones who buy the second or even third vacation homes. Don't forget to take that into account. Otherwise, yes, I tend to agree with you. There's my 2 cents...
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:32 AM   #38
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2.) many of the really rich people from places such as NYC are the ones who buy the second or even third vacation homes. Don't forget to take that into account. Otherwise, yes, I tend to agree with you. There's my 2 cents...
I wouldn't say MANY, I would stress that MOST vacation home owners are wealthy city dwellers. So really, city living is the cause of 90% of the problems. Maybe if they didn't live in the city they wouldn't need the second vacation home in the first place. Funny how for every side to a coin there's another...
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:22 AM   #39
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hahah, I agree completely. I still say overpopulation. Alright... no procreation..................................for dogs..............that should solve the dog issue in the park
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:45 PM   #40
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I still say overpopulation. Alright... no procreation..................................for dogs..............that should solve the dog issue in the park
Heaven forbid we tell families completely reliant on welfare to not have any more children (good luck figuring out how to impose that though ). We were all raised to believe China was evil, and often cited as proof was their quota on newborn children for each family. Now we see why - left unchecked, we (humans) procreate without any thought to how we will sustain that exponential boom in population. We build housing taller and slaughter houses bigger, expecting the Earth's finite resources to magically stretch to absorb whatever we throw at it. We also fail to consider the genetics we pass down, with direct correlations to many common, expensive, and currently incurable health ailments we pass on to our offspring. Sadly, procreation is so closely tied to our existence it's good evidence that we aren't that removed from the very creatures we feel we have dominion over. So if all the population rules apply to the balance in the greater system, why is it not practiced and expected in our own society? Do we really need a monster virus to wipe us out every couple centuries to keep us in check?

This is drift, but underlying the problems discussed here are the more fundamental issues like overpopulation. I guess unless we stick to talking about the weather there's going to have to be some OT since under the surface there's stronger currents at play in all issues.
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