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Old 06-02-2010, 11:54 AM   #1
DSettahr
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Good kayak for overnight trips

I did a search, but most of the kayak information was about good kayaks for day trips, not overnights.

I'm thinking about investing in a kayak, but I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on one. I'm looking for a good beginners kayak that would be suitable for overnight trips on ponds, lakes, and rivers in the Adirondacks. Most of the kayaks I've found that specifically state they are for multi-day trips are way out of my price range, and are pretty lengthy and look to be sea kayaks.

Would a 12 foot kayak, with a maximum load of 325 to 350 pounds work for trips of up to 5 days or so in length? I can keep the total load in the kayak to no more than 250 pounds (including both my own personal weight and the weight of my gear).

Here's the two models I'm looking at:

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/45919...=118-sub1&np=Y

http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/64054...1103-sub2&np=Y

Have people used kayaks similar to the ones above on overnight trips, and how did it work for you?

Suggestions about other models are also welcome.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:29 PM   #2
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Not considering a pack canoe?

There is an Old Town Pack canoe for sale on P net for about half ofwhat LLBean wants for those plastic thingies that are not portage friendly.
While not strictly a pack canoe paddled from sitting ont the bottom, its only thirty three lbs.


Used pack canoes can be hard to find but IMO worth the hunt.
I really dislike people dragging their kayaks though it is possible to make a portage system.

You will have to figure out how to pack a kayak with small bags yet incorporate them into a big bag for portaging. Tent poles can be an issue. You really need to bring your gear to the boat before you buy to be sure all will fit. I have seen some funny things try to get jammed in hatches ..mostly sleeping bags. As you are a backpacker, of course this would be less of an issue.

The Dagger looks to be the more interesting craft..the Pungo not so much. Personally I would buy a used something else. 12 feet in a kayak is not much simply becuse there is often a bulkhead and packing is tougher. 12 feet in a pack canoe is reasonable. 49 lbs for a craft with a huge cockpit is heavy. My sea kayak weight 49 lbs but is nearly 18 feet long.(not good for the ADKs I agree)


Its not so much the weight load that is pertinent but the capacity of the boat.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:33 PM   #3
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I have a Swift Adirondack 12 LT. It is a 12 foot kayak and it doesn't even have hatches. I was able to fit enough gear in it for an two-nighter on the Oswegatchie. Long, thin dry bags help to take up every bit of space in the tiny tips of the bow and stern. As long as you are willing to pack light(I'm thinking ultra-light tents, sleeping bags/pads, etc.) and use multiple bags I think either one of those would be fine.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:50 PM   #4
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D you might want to PM JayH on ADKhigh peaks or VFTT. He has a 14 foot Impex that he uses for overnighters. I have a 17 foot Impex and have no issues with gear. The sleeping bag goes into a compression sak and then into a dry bag. My hatches are long enough to accomodate my tent poles but they collapse up pretty small. I think they would easily fit into a 12 ft kayak. If you backpacking gear; small tent/tarp, jetboil, lightweight sleeping bag gear prob not an issue. I think food for a week though could take up alot of room. I have a mesh backpack that I bought for scuba diving that holds alot of gear and can be used for short portages. I would not want to carry gear a long way with it since it has no waist belt.

For shorter overnights I can even cram a small soft sided cooler into a hatch and have "real" food.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:53 PM   #5
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I'm not sure you could fit 5 days worth of gear in either of those ....
I suggest you check out paddleswap.com. See if you can get a good deal on a used boat with more room for your gear.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:02 PM   #6
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I had one of the original Pungo's back in the day (~15 years ago) and sold it so I could get a kayak to do overnight trips. Sold the kayak so I could get a kevlar pack canoe. Canoes are MUCH easier to pack and carry when compared to kayaks. If money is an issue check out the Old Town Pack canoe. There is always a lot of good advise here.

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Old 06-02-2010, 01:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvrwld View Post
I have a Swift Adirondack 12 LT. It is a 12 foot kayak and it doesn't even have hatches. I was able to fit enough gear in it for an two-nighter on the Oswegatchie. Long, thin dry bags help to take up every bit of space in the tiny tips of the bow and stern. As long as you are willing to pack light(I'm thinking ultra-light tents, sleeping bags/pads, etc.) and use multiple bags I think either one of those would be fine.
I fogot to add that I also have a deck bag that I use to hold the essential stuff that one might need during the day...TP, snacks, maps, fishing tackle, first aid kit, water filter...stuff like that.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:07 PM   #8
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I second (or third?) the OT pack. I paddled one for 7 yrs and did just about every carry there is with only minor annoyance at the weight... some days 33 lbs seems like a lot! You can drop the seat down to make it a lot more stable. Unfortunately, I already got rid of mine, but you can find 'em on craigslist all the time ranging from $300-600... For what those boats you're looking at cost, you can find prob find a used kevlar boat, too...I got my 12' Hornbeck for $900 from craigslist. Good luck! Let us know what you go with, too!
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Old 06-02-2010, 03:14 PM   #9
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kayak vs canoe

You need to decide the locations and required portages to make a decision IMO. For camping on larger bodies of water where winds and waves are factors and put-ins are minimal, a touring kayak with sealed hatches from 14 -1 7 feet is best.

For camping trips along twisty rivers and streams with minimal portages like Fall Stream or the Miami River, a shorter 12-14 foot kayak is fine.

For trips with any required carries such as St. Regis Canoe Area, Fish Creek Ponds, Lake Lila to Bog River Flow, from only a hundred feet to a mile, you would really do best with a lightweight pack canoe and not a kayak.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:35 PM   #10
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I have an 11 foot Old Town Loon kayak that I have used for overnight trips. It doesn't have hatches, just a big open cockpit and space under the deck fore and aft of the seat. I have dry bags shaped like the kayak which makes it easy to maximize the available space yet keep things dry. I love my boat, but unless the carries are wheelable, I would not want to go somewhere I'd have to carry much. It's 40 some pounds I think. The boat is very stable and roomy enough for all my camping gear, and even one of those collapsible chairs that come in a bag. If I could afford it, I'd own a Hornbeck, but for now this system will do.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:46 PM   #11
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Thanks everyone!
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:27 PM   #12
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I have a Hurricane Tampico XL that I have used for overnight/multiday trips. It is 39lbs and easily holds all my gear in the two watertight hatches. I think Hurricane may have changed the models in recent years.

Like others have said, kayaks are not easily portaged, but with 2 people on a trip and making either double trips, or if the portage trail is wide enough carry both simultaneously it can be done. Canoes are much easier though
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:24 PM   #13
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As the owner of both canoes and kayaks, if there are portages involved I always bring a canoe, light weight solo stripper or for tandem the Minnesota 11. Kayaks are enjoyable to paddle but do not portage well, and always require a double carry. Also I would look to a 14'-16', they will hold more more easily and paddle more efficiently. That said the 2 12' kayaks you are looking at are fine choises as 12 footers go.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:22 AM   #14
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Pyranha Fusion

This is the latest addition to my fleet which might work for you

http://cksblog.com/?p=1914

Pyrahna Fusion...cross between a touring boat and a river kayak (hybrid), sort of a compromise kayak. Tracks like a touring boat with skeg down, and able to run WW up to class III, with hatch for storage (enough for overnighter's for sure)...priced to sell at $800.
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:04 PM   #15
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This is my boat, a rotomolded Kestrel 140:

http://www.cdkayak.com/products/temp...9f774f6d440c66

At 58 pounds, it's not a light craft, but it is rugged enough for the Mohawk where I do most of my paddling.

Last year I did a RO2N at Lows/Bog River. I was able to fit all of my gear into the kayak; notice I didn't mention food and water.

For that, our group borrowed a canoe. They were also kind enough to carry my kayak portaging wheels for the trip around the dam. I was pretty inefficient loading my two hatches, if I used a couple tapered dry bags I could have carried food or water. I also didn't use a deck bag and my cockpit was pretty free of anything but water bottles.
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:21 PM   #16
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Water..why do you bring water..This always amazes me. People take trips in pristine lakes and bring bottled water..AAGH. This is be a rant. Our neighborhood is suing a bottled water company for wrecking our acquifer. A water filter handles any bacteria and bad things from moose deer and beaver poop.

On one St John trip people brought gallon containers of water...What a mess when the wind picked up the empty bottles. We had to tie the empties together. Yet the SJ is full of springs...people said they thought the water was dirty..cause its brown. Thats tannic acid caused by having an evergreen forest. Not pollution.

Funny when I paddled Lows from Lila with RapidFire it was single carry with one pack...and no steaks. But decent HawkVittles. I have no relation to Redhawk.

I still scratch my head about open cockpits and decked boats. The decks do deter rodents but what a lot of extra weight you guys carry! A sea kayak with a small cockpit makes all the sense on a large lake like Champlain but a modest size lake like Lows?

Its legal to paddle a canoe with a double blade.

Perhaps the input about the reasons why people like kayaks and people like canoes is best put on another thread. With the caveat we remember that getting outside and paddling is the single most important thing whether you do it in canoe kayak, inflatable or box.

I have both canoe and kayak. I dont have an inflatable save for a Pak Canoe with air chambers. I have limited luck with waxed boxes. Both of them have gotten waterlogged and fallen apart in half an hour.
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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Submitted by: moriverrat Send Email
11-12-2009
A few weeks ago I set out from St Joe, Missouri in my trusty Pack. My destination was the town of Hermann, 340 miles down the Missouri river. In addition to my nearly 200 pound 5'10" frame, my indomitable Pack also carried 8 5 liter water cans, 2 coolers, 2 duffel bags and other assorted gear. I used an 8' kayak paddle and on the best day made 70 miles.
Rating: 10 of 10

-----------

That review of the OT Pack tells me it can hold a lot of gear. I' having a toss up as to weather I should get an OT Pack, or just watch Craigslist for a Kevlar myself.

Being a beginner I'm not sure If I should just go right to the Kevlar or if I should get the OT Pack first.
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:05 PM   #18
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That load is well within the range of a bunch of boats.

Tells me more about the river than the boat. May have been that an innertube would have made 70 miles.

If you are a beginner, just get out there and figure out what means the most to you!

Aside from a Pelican buy a used boat and go paddling..( just dont get me started on Pelicans). The OT Pack satisfies many ( not me...but thats after 20 years. In 1989 I would have said it was the best boat!). With time you will find out what you want in a boat.

And Happy Paddling is what its all about.
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by yellowcanoe View Post
That load is well within the range of a bunch of boats.

Tells me more about the river than the boat. May have been that an innertube would have made 70 miles.

If you are a beginner, just get out there and figure out what means the most to you!

Aside from a Pelican buy a used boat and go paddling..( just dont get me started on Pelicans). The OT Pack satisfies many ( not me...but thats after 20 years. In 1989 I would have said it was the best boat!). With time you will find out what you want in a boat.

And Happy Paddling is what its all about.
Thanks Man!!!!!!! : )
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:26 PM   #20
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I am not a man and am very busy spending my Social Security check. I can afford a three thousand boat every four months.
gees beats the rocking chair. Call me Grandma! but dont call me dead.

O crud... someone will turn me in..I am supposed to be old.
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