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Old 08-31-2015, 04:40 PM   #1
Hard Scrabble
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Wolves in the Adirondacks

Something to enliven the conversation. Any thoughts on this topic?
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Old 08-31-2015, 06:42 PM   #2
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I think in the past this has been rather a contentious issue on the forum. My personal view is that wolves belong in the north woods. I doubt, though, that we will see a re-introduction to the Adirondacks any time soon due to the volatile politics surrounding the issue.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:18 PM   #3
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I'm pretty sure there are coywolves in NY and VT. There have been quite a few reports like yours Justin.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:23 PM   #4
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The heck with wolves. Bring back megafauna. I want to see saber tooth tigers and mastodons.
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Old 08-31-2015, 07:31 PM   #5
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I'm pretty sure there are coywolves in NY and VT. There have been quite a few reports like yours Justin.
That was our best conclusion also, a hybrid of some sort.
As far re-introducing "Gray wolves" ( AKA Timber wolves) to the Adirondacks...I am not in support of that.

Last edited by Justin; 09-01-2015 at 07:08 PM.. Reason: Poor typing skills
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:03 PM   #6
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Last year when we were deer hunting in Coldriver we heard a howl it wasn't a coyote. Then a few days later I was on watch an down the trail came this huge what I thought was a coyote , It was coal black with a copper colored face. It was't thirty yards from me so I got a good look at it. I tried to get a shot at it but it ran off. This thing was huge. Bigger then any coyote I had seen.I said something to the conservation officer when we came out an he said Bob you saw a wolf..
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:24 PM   #7
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A couple of winters ago I saw two coy wolves running together up the frozen Sacandaga River just outside of Speculator. They were huge and running like a boss. It made a believer out of me.
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:39 PM   #8
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Several previous threads on this topic...
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Old 09-01-2015, 07:30 AM   #9
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It's now well documented that the big fellows we have seen in the ADKS (I've seen them too!) are wolf - coyote hybrids. The Eastern Coyote has morphed into much larger creature. Great special on "Nature" about this a few years back. If it's the size of a full grown German Shepherd....it's a wolf in my book!
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:23 AM   #10
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Several previous threads on this topic...
Just write "wolves" in the software's search engine and restrict the search to threads ( as opposed to posts). Some very bitter arguments that left a foul atmosphere, which took a long time to dissipate.

Very interesting about the interbreeding. The ecological fate of the hybrids will be something to follow.
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:34 AM   #11
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My personal guess is that the hybrids are going to do quite well. I think the hybrid is the "new wolf." There's enough undeveloped area, deer herd, and unguarded livestock for them to thrive. When they really bump up against man (taking livestock and pets routinely, as opposed to "hearing a howl"), then it will be OUR reaction that will be an interesting ecological study.

But again, for at least a while, I think they will do well. In fact, an attempt to "re-introduce" a more pure-bred wolf might have a hard time dislodging the established "locals." And as I've said before, I don't have a dog in this fight (pun intended). I just hope no one wants to spend good money trying to force some kind of change in what is naturally occurring here; money that could be better spent on many other things like fighting acid rain or maintaining trails.
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Old 09-01-2015, 09:14 AM   #12
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I'm not an expert but if I'm not mistaken, Coyotes can (or will) live on a more omnivorous diet than a wolf will. This certainly has to be an advantage over a pure carnivore, especially in our environment where running down an animal has to be absolutely brutal work.

Thing is, I would also assume that this diet will limit size, so possibly the big boys (and girls) will die out in favor of smaller hybrids that will be better suited to living off this omnivorous diet.

Sometimes I think all this fight to keep the Adirondacks as they were is a bit ridiculous - I think in some respects we need to let things go and let them evolve with us and whatever may make its way into this environment. Often times I have a hard time imagining how anything survives here - there ain't much to eat and even coming across other species to hunt is pretty difficult. Lots of land, not a lot resources and very difficult weather conditions. I think I'd rather be a bear
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Old 09-01-2015, 11:30 AM   #13
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This thread feels like a tired out attempt to start a debate on this topic. Must be the heat and humidity. Should be moved to the Adirondack Wildlife sub-forum in my opinion. Hunting season for Coyotes (and super coyotes) opens October 1st. Hoping to see one during rifle season.
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:27 PM   #14
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I think in the past this has been rather a contentious issue on the forum. My personal view is that wolves belong in the north woods. I doubt, though, that we will see a re-introduction to the Adirondacks any time soon due to the volatile politics surrounding the issue.
I see no contention.
It's an issue that some members may want to discuss.
Respectfully,
Jim
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Old 09-01-2015, 10:32 PM   #15
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I know for a fact that some natives on the awkwesasne res buy the "wolf hybrids" they're usually bred with german shepards, husky or malamutes. They bred them with domestic breeds to achieve some of the domestic dog characteristics, such as playfullness and so they don't attack small running children as they can confuse them with prey items. They're extremely protective animals if raised from birth, i assume that has a lot to do with pack mentality. Most are half to 3/4 wolf and they get free and run after deer, rabbits, etc. They get hit on the higway on a regular basis (one every few years). I'm sure some get out and thrive in the wild, wolves territorial range is large, wouldnt be hard to create a breeding population on a few escapees. It also wounld be hard for them to breed out most of the domesticated canine genes with a few breeding pairs of 3/4 or more wolf heritage. Plenty of rabbits, wood chucks, beaver and deer to survive on.
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Old 09-02-2015, 07:37 AM   #16
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Bring back T-Rex.
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Old 09-02-2015, 03:26 PM   #17
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I remember reading about this years ago.
http://www.sacandagalife.com/wolves-adirondacks/
This has also happened in Vermont as recently as 2006. So wolves are out there, just not many. Wanderers I would guess, not breeding populations.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:31 PM   #18
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I once heard that hybrids are infertile, so there is no future for them regardless of habitat and available food. Ive heard it about other crossbree species too, like when fools breed lions and tigers. Is that true for the coywolves? To me that seems counterintuitive to how species develop and change overtime... But at the same time it would lead one to believe that there are alot more full blooded wolves in the area, or very close by, than biologists say. Makes me curious....
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:52 PM   #19
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Not all inter species that interbreed results in sterile offspring. Coywolves are generally not sterile according to most sources.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:04 PM   #20
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Not all inter species that interbreed results in sterile offspring. Coywolves are generally not sterile according to most sources.
Agreed, they seem to be doing quite well.
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