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Old 03-21-2019, 10:50 PM   #21
Wldrns
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A friend worked in the armed forces and did a lot of SAR. He always said that the best educator was a ticket. I'd add the cost of the rescue on top of it.
Actually a better educator is figuring out for your self what you did wrong (or right) to get into any unusual or undesirable situation. Over the years I learned much more when things went wrong and I took the time and thought process to figure it out, than when I had a perfectly easy day. Making mistakes is all part of the game. Learn from them and don't make the same kind of mistake again. Quite often in my early solo self-tought days, whenever occasional confusion overcame me, there was usually some sort of mistake or series of mistakes involved. I felt very much satisfied to have resolved any problems on my own with a little thought and slight backtracking. It was long before the days of GPS or cell phones. I see a lot of non-medical non-emergency SAR reports in which self extraction should have been more than possible without pressing the panic buttons to get external help.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:45 AM   #22
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Actually a better educator is figuring out for your self what you did wrong (or right) to get into any unusual or undesirable situation. Over the years I learned much more when things went wrong and I took the time and thought process to figure it out, than when I had a perfectly easy day. Making mistakes is all part of the game. Learn from them and don't make the same kind of mistake again. Quite often in my early solo self-tought days, whenever occasional confusion overcame me, there was usually some sort of mistake or series of mistakes involved. I felt very much satisfied to have resolved any problems on my own with a little thought and slight backtracking. It was long before the days of GPS or cell phones. I see a lot of non-medical non-emergency SAR reports in which self extraction should have been more than possible without pressing the panic buttons to get external help.
Sometimes finding out for yourself can be deadly
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Old 03-22-2019, 07:59 AM   #23
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Actually a better educator is figuring out for your self
My off-trail nav skills really picked up when I stopped even carrying a GPS buried in my pack or any communication device. It made me exploit my senses of terrain observation and reasoning to a high degree. I learned that terrain observation was much more important than knowing how to read a map and compass, which are indispensable in their own right.

(I now carry a Spot device and have no qualms about using a GPS as an adjunct to assist me on really long whacks or on cold winter days.)
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:09 AM   #24
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Too much judging based on sneakers
I wouldnt change anything about my early days of hiking and exploring
All of my hiking was in basically street clothes, sneakers, jeans whatever shirts/sweaters, my backpack was my school bag
Cold weather gear meant wearing 2 pairs of socks, cotton.
Maps? Didnt want to rip pages out of my dads rand mcnally book map so would hand draw routes based off the map,
Bushwhacked all through the catskills like this
Yes i encountered problems lots of problems
But would do it all over again
Only piece of modern gear i wish i had was a modern sleeping bag
Bag i had was huge, annoying having it strapped to my schoolbag got snagged and torn many times
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:45 AM   #25
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Sometimes finding out for yourself can be deadly
Yes, of course it can. So can randomly crossing the street without prior planning or basic knowledge. My point was that for eons, people got along and learned how to behave and take care of themselves without having instant access to outside assistance, relying instead on developing their own experiences and skills for self-preservation.

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Maps? Didnt want to rip pages out of my dads rand mcnally book map so would hand draw routes based off the map,
Bushwhacked all through the catskills like this
Which means, whether you knew what you were doing or not, you did some basic map and trail study before setting out. An important step to navigation by terrain association. As a result, at some level, you carried a version of the map in your head and knew what to expect as you traveled along. If what you encountered did not match what you thought, that is when you need to refer to the printed (or hand copied) version. A good way to learn and gain the skill.
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:14 AM   #26
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When I first started hiking the mountains I was naive, no, make that stupid, but nobody could tell me anything. I was omnipotent and immortal.
I survived and those tough lessons are some of my most keen memories.
We can only try to teach and hope some are not too dumb and stubborn to listen.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:42 AM   #27
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The first time I tried a high mountain, many years ago in my mid-twenties, a friend & I started up Tuckerman Ravine to Mt Washington. I was wearing old Bass Weejuns, had a very small, old canvas daypack containing lunch & two bottles of beer, and was dressed inappropriately for the hike. The beer bottles exploded part way up. It started raining as we got to the headwall. Luckily my friend convinced me to turn back when we got to the severe-weather warning sign.
Hopefully the guys in the report will learn, and hopefully continue hiking.
This is a perfect example of the stupidity of some hikers. The second bottle of beer should have been consumed immediately after the first one exploded.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:33 AM   #28
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LOL! It was so long ago I don't remember, but I think they exploded about the same time. But stupidity was written all over the hike.
I will add that *I* didn't want to turn back at the warning sign, but my friend pretty much insisted. And aborting a hike when time runs out, or conditions change, was one of the hardest things for me to learn. Once I've set out to go somewhere, I REALLY want to finish.
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:37 PM   #29
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Actually a better educator is figuring out for your self what you did wrong (or right) to get into any unusual or undesirable situation. Over the years I learned much more when things went wrong and I took the time and thought process to figure it out, than when I had a perfectly easy day.
I do agree that education through experience is valuable. However, if someone is doing something reckless without knowing it, and just by chance their activity (hike, paddle, camping trip, etc) goes perfectly, that unwitting behavior may continue on future trips. Perhaps on a future trip that same behavior ends in a situation where the consequences are unrecoverable. In that case, there would be no opportunity to learn. By having an interaction (friendly conversation or perhaps a ticket as a last resort), the person might have the opportunity to recognize their inadvertent mistake and hopefully decide to not continue that behavior.
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Old 03-23-2019, 07:10 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=mmaute;273767] However, if someone is doing something reckless without knowing it, and just by chance their activity (hike, paddle, camping trip, etc) goes perfectly, that unwitting behavior may continue on future trips. Perhaps on a future trip that same behavior ends in a situation where the consequences are unrecoverable. QUOTE]

Doesn't have to "go perfectly" either. I remember when Hua Davis died, a discussion occurred that she had avoided death from hypothermia in the Catskills when someone helped guide her back to her car when she was wet, cold and lost down there. One would think she might have learned from that first experience, but that did not happen.
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:18 AM   #31
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Sometimes things go wrong;

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...ip-alaska.html
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Old 03-24-2019, 10:59 AM   #32
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Wow thatís quite a story!
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:54 PM   #33
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Wow thatís quite a story!
Yeah, what are the odds of a tree falling on you when you're just walking by? That's some "final destination" stuff right there.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:47 PM   #34
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I couldn't get by the paywall.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:51 PM   #35
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I couldn't get by the paywall.
Same here. I've read too many NY Times Articles already. I would need to subscribe next.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:05 PM   #36
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Phew crazy story
What are the odds? Odds don’t matter if you’re the one under the tree
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:54 PM   #37
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I couldn't get by the paywall.
My sister told me that if you have more than one browser on your computer you can use the second one to get more free stories in a given month. I mostly use Safari but also have Chrome for those times when Safari doesn't seem to be getting me there.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #38
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If you open a private browsing window you will be able to read it. Incognito in chrome, may be called something else in IE or safari.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:53 AM   #39
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If you open a private browsing window you will be able to read it. Incognito in chrome, may be called something else in IE or safari.
Both Fox and Edge have private viewing which circumvents the paywall.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:55 AM   #40
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Wow thatís quite a story!
Unbelievably unlucky to have a tree fall on you, unbelievably lucky to be able to summon help.
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