Adirondack Forum  
Rules Membership Donations and Online Store Adkhighpeaks Foundation ADKhighpeaks Forums ADKhighpeaks Wiki Disclaimer

Go Back   Adirondack Forum > The Adirondack Forum > Paddling in the Adirondacks
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-19-2017, 07:26 PM   #21
sweeper
Member
 
sweeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colrain MA
Posts: 65
Rollins is a nice step back into the woods from the madness out on Fish Ponds and Sq Pond. We paddled down Fish Creek into the Fish Ponds. The powerboats were flying by everywhere. Getting them off Rollins is a good idea, keep them out on the big lakes. They have nowhere to go but round & round on Rollins. With them gone maybe people who camp there will take the next step and paddle out the top and discover another step back into the woods.
sweeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 10:19 PM   #22
adkman12986
Member
 
adkman12986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tupper Lake
Posts: 864
Wilderness experience at Rolands or any other State campsite is a joke. Want wilderness experience go to the back country.
adkman12986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 07:24 AM   #23
geogymn
Member
 
geogymn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,007
Quote:
Originally Posted by adkman12986 View Post
Wilderness experience at Rolands or any other State campsite is a joke. Want wilderness experience go to the back country.
True, but should we not stem the flow of the vanishing wilderness?
__________________
"A culture is no better than its woods." W.H. Auden
geogymn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 08:38 AM   #24
St.Regis
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,466
Why would you "stem the flow" at another's expense? To me, taking advantage of an opportunity for personal gain by removing rights from others is wrong for many reasons. And Rollins is a nice spot, but it is not wilderness - half the shore is covered with a campground. But not being wilderness seems to be ok with the loons, because they've been there living together with motorboats for as long as motorboats have been there.
St.Regis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 08:48 AM   #25
adkman12986
Member
 
adkman12986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tupper Lake
Posts: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by geogymn View Post
True, but should we not stem the flow of the vanishing wilderness?
We are not talking about a new body of water here that has not had motorized boating, but an area that has already had it. There are over 500,000 water craft registered in New York that contribute millions of dollars to improve launching and parking areas every year, where will this revenue come from once it's gone? I know some paddlers like myself would register our canoes but I'll bet there are plenty that will scream. I still say that if you want a wilderness experience stay away from state campsites.
adkman12986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 08:58 AM   #26
tombaisley
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 12
"wilderness " by definition does not exist anywhere in the ADK
tombaisley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 09:31 AM   #27
sweeper
Member
 
sweeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colrain MA
Posts: 65
Exactly, if the state can give people a look at "A Wilderness Type Experience," with sites a bit further apart and no powerboat screaming up and down the lake the better. A State Camping Area with only Canoes, Kayak and Boats with Trolling Motors has got to have an appeal for those who are fed up with areas like Sq Lake. Most people still won't get it, take another step and paddle into Floodwood and beyond, but you now they have one more quiet(er) lake.
sweeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 11:25 AM   #28
TCD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweeper View Post
A State Camping Area with only Canoes, Kayak and Boats with Trolling Motors has got to have an appeal...
Maybe true - an interesting idea. Perhaps the State should establish such a campground somewhere, and then we would see how much of a draw it actually is. (Maybe at Boreas?) But forcibly converting an existing campground with a long history of multiple uses to eliminate a user group is not a good plan.
TCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 11:54 AM   #29
Buckladd
Member
 
Buckladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hogtown
Posts: 1,238
I recently camped at Rollins on the upper end. I thought it was 10hp but it's 25hp, that was just enough for some folks to try water skiing on the upper end one night. They did stir things up for us paddlers and anglers (many with younger kids) who were out there before sunset. Still, overall, in four days of camping there the motorboats were not overly disturbing.

Bob K: I think Nicks Lake in Old Forge is electric motor only.
__________________
Life's short, hunt hard!

Last edited by Buckladd; 08-21-2017 at 05:28 PM..
Buckladd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 12:19 PM   #30
sweeper
Member
 
sweeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colrain MA
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post
Maybe true - an interesting idea. Perhaps the State should establish such a campground somewhere, and then we would see how much of a draw it actually is. (Maybe at Boreas?)
You really want to put a Rollin's Style campground on the Boreas?

Power boats on Rollins have no place to go except round and round. Keep them out in Fish and Sq where they can power up and down the Saranac's.

Quote:
But forcibly converting an existing campground with a long history of multiple uses to eliminate a user group is not a good plan.
Call it a correction of past errors
sweeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 01:03 PM   #31
TCD
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,951
No, I was being facetious - I like to poke fun at Boreas periodically...

Many VERY bad things are done all the time all over the world in the name of Correction of Past Errors.

I am sure that the Adirondacks is big enough that there is a place or any kind of new campground the State can conceive (heck, they're trying to jam one into Exit 29). My point is that any idea we might want to try, can be tried without taking away something that has historically been enjoyed by many users. Again, I am not a boater, and I have no dog in this discussion. But I do not like the idea of prejudging what other users might or might not enjoy, and then using that pre-judgment as a pretext to take away their usage. Sure, maybe the Rollins power boaters have nowhere to go except around and around. But if that was a real detraction for them, they would stop showing up.
TCD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 04:02 PM   #32
adkman12986
Member
 
adkman12986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tupper Lake
Posts: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post
No, I was being facetious - I like to poke fun at Boreas periodically...

Many VERY bad things are done all the time all over the world in the name of Correction of Past Errors.

I am sure that the Adirondacks is big enough that there is a place or any kind of new campground the State can conceive (heck, they're trying to jam one into Exit 29). My point is that any idea we might want to try, can be tried without taking away something that has historically been enjoyed by many users. Again, I am not a boater, and I have no dog in this discussion. But I do not like the idea of prejudging what other users might or might not enjoy, and then using that pre-judgment as a pretext to take away their usage. Sure, maybe the Rollins power boaters have nowhere to go except around and around. But if that was a real detraction for them, they would stop showing up.
Until it doesn't fit someone's thinking. There will always be some that are unhappy no matter what it is.
adkman12986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 07:10 AM   #33
Grey-Jay
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 831
IMO, the entire area south of Floodwood Rd allows motors so it makes less sense to change Rollins when you would hear distant motors from all over adjacent waters.

If the DEC ever re-evaluates other campgrounds, the campground that makes the most sense to change is Putnam Pond. Isolated, small, filled with hiking trails, wilderness quiet away from highways, etc. You can paddle across it in 10 minutes. This could be the DEC's premier most wilderness like campsite. No shoreline development. It is my understanding it once was motor-free.

IMO as an avid fisherman . . . as to the argument that motorboaters and paddlers have equal rights in the Adirondacks ......one of the least found wilderness attributes in the Adirondacks is pure quiet. On water, I can't find much of it. Just one gas motor can distantly remove that wilderness sense. You can't say the same for a paddle. I just spent 3 days on the very wild Cedar River Flow. For my first time in 30 years, 4 different motorboats were on the Flow. Yes, it negatively impacted my feel of wilderness. They even went up the river somehow transported over a beaver dam.

Last edited by Grey-Jay; 08-21-2017 at 07:23 AM..
Grey-Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 08:29 AM   #34
JohnnyVirgil
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey-Jay View Post
I just spent 3 days on the very wild Cedar River Flow. For my first time in 30 years, 4 different motorboats were on the Flow. Yes, it negatively impacted my feel of wilderness. They even went up the river somehow transported over a beaver dam.
Or generator, or chainsaw...both of which seem to go hand in hand with motorboats and RVs. I wonder how far they got? Maybe they were trying to make it to the lean-to.
JohnnyVirgil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 11:24 AM   #35
kwc
loser
 
kwc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Johnstown NY
Posts: 1,285
I was under the impression that Cedar River Flow was a no motorized watercraft area. I checked the DEC website (for Moose River Plains) and it doesn't say anything one way or the other.

I've never witnessed a motorized boat there but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I'd like to know how they got up that channel to the beaver dam ... that's fairly shallow.

But then I've seen folks "drive" their motor boats up Fall Lake Stream, going over beaver dams, to get all the way up to Vly Lake.
__________________


Once a year, go some where you've never been before.
kwc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2017, 11:28 AM   #36
JohnnyVirgil
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwc View Post
I was under the impression that Cedar River Flow was a no motorized watercraft area. I checked the DEC website (for Moose River Plains) and it doesn't say anything one way or the other.

I've never witnessed a motorized boat there but that certainly doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

I'd like to know how they got up that channel to the beaver dam ... that's fairly shallow.

But then I've seen folks "drive" their motor boats up Fall Lake Stream, going over beaver dams, to get all the way up to Vly Lake.
I'm there quite a bit in the fall with my wife and I think there's a lot of bird hunting going on. I see more boats then. Usually rowboats with a sub-15 horse motor. I kinda wish it was no motors at all. Although I did see someone using an electric motor last year and that was pretty awesome since it made no noise at all. The loudest thing I've seen there had to be a seaplane that landed on the far side and then taxied around the lake before taking off again. Those things are freakin' loud but amazingly so when they are 20 feet away!
JohnnyVirgil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 06:01 PM   #37
Banoe
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 49
"Motors are allowed on more than 90% of accessible waterways in the Adirondacks, so even if this suggested ban were to be enacted, those dependent on motors for their water recreation would have plenty of places to go."

I don't know of any waterways in the Adrondacks that don't allow paddle craft. Yet 10% is off limits to motors When paddle lovers want to get together with all the boaters fisherman sailors etc. and work on solutions that benefit all party's interests then I will sign petitions.
Banoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 07:51 PM   #38
JohnnyVirgil
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Porter Corners, NY
Posts: 1,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banoe View Post
"Motors are allowed on more than 90% of accessible waterways in the Adirondacks, so even if this suggested ban were to be enacted, those dependent on motors for their water recreation would have plenty of places to go."

I don't know of any waterways in the Adrondacks that don't allow paddle craft. Yet 10% is off limits to motors When paddle lovers want to get together with all the boaters fisherman sailors etc. and work on solutions that benefit all party's interests then I will sign petitions.
I view it like this. You may enjoy smoking cigars. But one person smoking a cigar in a full restaurant can wreck a meal for a a bunch of people who might not like the smell of cigars. Now if you had a restaurant that allowed cigar smoking, one non-smoker would have zero effect on the rest of the people enjoying their cigars. Likewise, one motorboat can ruin the experience for a bunch of paddlers, where one paddler has zero effect on a bunch of motorboaters. And that's how we ended up with smoke-free bars and restaurants. The tricky part is, of course, that it's taxpayer-owned land.
JohnnyVirgil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 08:39 PM   #39
stripperguy
Hangin' by a thread
 
stripperguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Schenectady, NY
Posts: 3,826
Not Rollins, but...
We were upstream of Salmon Lake, heading for Witchhopple, about as far upstream as reasonably navigable. That's over 2.5 miles from Big Burnt Lake on Stillwater.

We could still hear the jetskis on Stillwater.
It took us quite a few calories to get there...kinda spoiled my experience.
stripperguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 09:00 PM   #40
sweeper
Member
 
sweeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Colrain MA
Posts: 65
There aren't a lot of places where you won't hear 'civilization'.

The Allagash 'Wilderness' Waterway, Trucks, Skidders & Chainsaws, even up in Algonquin PP last month I was surprised how far into the backcountry I could the traffic on Rt 60

Guess I'm going to need a bigger Boom Box!
sweeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
canoe, kayak, quiet waters, rollins pond


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

DISCLAIMER: Use of these forums, and information found herein, is at your own risk. Use of this site by members and non-members alike is only granted by the adkhighpeak.com administration provided the terms and conditions found in the FULL DISCLAIMER have been read. Continued use of this site implies that you have read, understood and agree to the terms and conditions of this site. Any questions can be directed to the Administrator of this site.