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Old 08-13-2015, 04:41 PM   #21
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Cityboy,
As I said, Black Bears are not Grizzlies.
The bear in your description did not attack.
Most likely the bear huffed and puffed trying to drive off the offending human.
Any animal that has lost its fear of humans need to be reckoned with, whether it's a bear or a chipmunk
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Old 08-13-2015, 05:58 PM   #22
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Generalities like that are nice for TV shows and retelling stories, but the reality is there are aggressive black bears that are perfectly willing to confront humans and other animals (perhaps fewer in number compared to say brown bears, but they still exist).

And more relevant to the topic at hand, black bears, being omnivores and very opportunistic animals, will most certainly try to take down smaller animals, including dogs, if they think they get an easy meal out of it.

I'm not discounting your 'protecting the cubs' theory, nor am I saying the bear was trying to prey on the owner's dog (far too little information is available to determine the cause of the attack).

I just think that saying 'black bears are timid, so the attack must have been the result of a provocation on the dog or owner's part' is jumping to an unfounded conclusion.
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Old 08-13-2015, 06:18 PM   #23
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I think there are a few different logical reasons why an incident like this might occur in the Adirondacks (a few of them have been mentioned), and there are a few ways that it probably could've been avoided.
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:18 PM   #24
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Who knows what happened? If the guy had his dog leashed, things might have been different. I've seen a lot of things happen very quickly when dogs are not on a leash. They are both lucky that things weren't worse.


(It was really Justin's dog in a bear suit!)
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:14 PM   #25
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Who knows what happened?...

(It was really Justin's dog in a bear suit!)
That might be true, who knows if it was really even a bear?
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:16 PM   #26
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My apologies. I probably shouldn't have posted the alternate title...
The alternate title was the more accurate title. No need to apologize for it.

This information will just be ignored by some, but for those wondering what really happened...

A 12 pound dog was a tenth of a mile up the trail, out of sight, when it encountered what is being described as a juvenile bear. The dog and bear came running back down the trail where they encountered the dog's owner. The bear ignored the owner, and proceeded to engage the dog.

The owner jumped on the bear's back (gave it a bear hug, his pun, not mine), pulled it away from the dog, and punched it in the face.

The bear then turned on the owner, and eventually disengaged when the owner pushed it away with a stick, it then ran away after he hit the bear with the stick.

We have no idea how the initial dog/bear encounter played out. But given the facts - at worst, all you might be able to say is that the bear "attacked" the dog. However, analyze it. A black bear. A 12 pound dog. The dog survives with some scratches.

By the way, I am aware of no research... none... that suggests that bears that are habituated ("lost their fear of humans") are any more dangerous to humans. What research I am aware of states just the opposite. Think about the Yosemite tourist bears - people used to pose for pictures with them... or think about the old Adirondack dump bears. Extremely habituated. Lost all fear of humans. No deadly encounters. Most deadly bear encounters actually involve lone bears who have little to no exposure to humans.
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Old 08-13-2015, 08:25 PM   #27
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Just out of curiosity... Anyone know how a fairly dry summer may affect a black bear's diet?
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Old 08-13-2015, 10:03 PM   #28
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I don't eat "seaweed" sandwiches. I may put other type of "weed" in my sandwiches though.
Well apparently, black bears also occasionally get the munchies.
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Old 08-14-2015, 09:35 AM   #29
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Seen as how everyone else is speculating, I'm going to speculate something.

Most of our observations with bears have involved bear-human interaction, not bear, small dog/small animal interaction.

I'm thinking from the bear's perspective. Black bears and most humans are in the same weight range, but we stand tall. To a bear that could be seen as intimidating, and most likely why they run when they spot us. But how do they react when they see a Fisher, or a Raccoon? They might be curious, they are curious creatures, and they might not be scared of something that much smaller than them.

If, in fact, this was a juvenile bear. It might just have been curious of the dog. Most bears might have shown this behavior. If the dog tried to stand tough and scare the bear off, the bear might have called the dogs bluff. At that point the bears curiosity of whether or not this might be a potential meal might have kicked in meanwhile the dog was taking flight. This might explain why the bear was chasing the dog.

I'm basing a lot of this on my observation on how large dogs react to small dogs. Sometimes they back right down from the barking, but a few will call the bluff and engage or chase after small dogs. A bear might react the same way.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:21 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Holdstrong View Post
The alternate title was the more accurate title. No need to apologize for it.

This information will just be ignored by some, but for those wondering what really happened...

A 12 pound dog was a tenth of a mile up the trail, out of sight, when it encountered what is being described as a juvenile bear. The dog and bear came running back down the trail where they encountered the dog's owner. The bear ignored the owner, and proceeded to engage the dog.

The owner jumped on the bear's back (gave it a bear hug, his pun, not mine), pulled it away from the dog, and punched it in the face.

The bear then turned on the owner, and eventually disengaged when the owner pushed it away with a stick, it then ran away after he hit the bear with the stick.

We have no idea how the initial dog/bear encounter played out. But given the facts - at worst, all you might be able to say is that the bear "attacked" the dog. However, analyze it. A black bear. A 12 pound dog. The dog survives with some scratches.

By the way, I am aware of no research... none... that suggests that bears that are habituated ("lost their fear of humans") are any more dangerous to humans. What research I am aware of states just the opposite. Think about the Yosemite tourist bears - people used to pose for pictures with them... or think about the old Adirondack dump bears. Extremely habituated. Lost all fear of humans. No deadly encounters. Most deadly bear encounters actually involve lone bears who have little to no exposure to humans.
Care to share your source? Otherwise, this can be counted as nothing more than mere speculation.

Even if that description you provided is true, there is no indication that the dog 'provoked' or 'instigated' the situation. And like I said, 'blaming' one party or the other is pretty juvenile...the bear is a wild animal...the dog, as others have said, was a smaller animal...the bear may have simply been curious or fixated on the dog without realizing the owner was present.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:33 AM   #31
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Wild Animals!!!

My feeling is that all animals should be treated with caution, wild or domestic. I am not afraid of most animals but they should all be treated with respect. I can no longer go to Old Forge during peak season due to stupid humans that try to get close to the deer and could get hurt due to spooking the deer and the deer is the one that will pay the ultimate price. People need to understand when hiking or camping that we are in their territory and to respect that. If you have a camp in the woods be prepared for to take the good/bad with interactions with wild life.
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:40 AM   #32
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Care to share your source? Otherwise, this can be counted as nothing more than mere speculation.

Even if that description you provided is true, there is no indication that the dog 'provoked' or 'instigated' the situation. And like I said, 'blaming' one party or the other is pretty juvenile...the bear is a wild animal...the dog, as others have said, was a smaller animal...the bear may have simply been curious or fixated on the dog without realizing the owner was present.
Agreed, but with one caveat - the dog should have been on a leash, which the original article confirmed it was not.
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Old 08-14-2015, 12:22 PM   #33
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Agreed, but with one caveat - the dog should have been on a leash, which the original article confirmed it was not.
Why? And is that realistic?

Most dog owners I know go to the wilderness and park areas, like the ADK's, to let their dogs enjoy the wilderness.

And so long as the dogs are obedient and trained to stay close to their owners, there should be no problem with that.

If the bear had charged a dog that was off-leash, but only 3 feet away from its owner, would a leash have changed anything?
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Old 08-14-2015, 01:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Bounder45 View Post
...
And so long as the dogs are obedient and trained to stay close to their owners,..
Pish and bother, that's so common it's not even worth mentioning!

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If the bear had charged a dog that was off-leash, but only 3 feet away from its owner, would a leash have changed anything?
That sounds like an LSAT question for bears.
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:01 PM   #35
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Generalities like that are nice for TV shows and retelling stories, but the reality is there are aggressive black bears that are perfectly willing to confront humans and other animals (perhaps fewer in number compared to say brown bears, but they still exist).

And more relevant to the topic at hand, black bears, being omnivores and very opportunistic animals, will most certainly try to take down smaller animals, including dogs, if they think they get an easy meal out of it.

I'm not discounting your 'protecting the cubs' theory, nor am I saying the bear was trying to prey on the owner's dog (far too little information is available to determine the cause of the attack).

I just think that saying 'black bears are timid, so the attack must have been the result of a provocation on the dog or owner's part' is jumping to an unfounded conclusion.
Bounder,
I'll ask, respectfully, how many black bears have you seen in the Adirondacks while deer hunting?
Jim
I'm sorry , I'm being confrontational.
Jim
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:02 PM   #36
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Why? And is that realistic?
Because it's the law?
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:24 PM   #37
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Channel 10 just had the man on TV. He was taking out the trash at 4 am when the bear attacked him The bear was on top of him when the dog bit the bear's ankles and the guy was able to get free and fight off the bear. Those are his own words.
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:40 PM   #38
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Channel 10 just had the man on TV. He was taking out the trash at 4 am when the bear attacked him The bear was on top of him when the dog bit the bear's ankles and the guy was able to get free and fight off the bear. Those are his own words.
Seems the story has changed significantly from the initial DEC report...
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Old 08-14-2015, 04:43 PM   #39
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Channel 10 just had the man on TV. He was taking out the trash at 4 am when the bear attacked him The bear was on top of him when the dog bit the bear's ankles and the guy was able to get free and fight off the bear. Those are his own words.
Again, this is not normal black bear behavior.
I would bet that the incident occurred in the suburbs of a fairly large population area.
A place where black bears have not been hunted for many bear generations and have lost their natural fear of humans.
How many of us has thought that the cute little chipmunk was nice just before he bit the finger?
Bears are not the problem in these areas, people are.
Jim
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Old 08-15-2015, 10:25 AM   #40
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If the bear had charged a dog that was off-leash, but only 3 feet away from its owner, would a leash have changed anything?

That sounds like an LSAT question for bears.
This made me laugh. Out loud. Thank you.
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