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-   -   Emerald Ash Borer (http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=28109)

Cold River Bob 06-28-2021 11:47 AM

Wen we were in Calkins brook a couple weeks ago the guy I hike with is a logger . He stopped an was looking at something an I came over an he said you know what that is ? I did They are in there I've seen them around my land here in the Southern tier,

backwoodsman 06-28-2021 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold River Bob (Post 286187)
another way they are spreading is from the log tucks taking ash to the mills.

Yes , it's a messy business, then after unloading the logs they get run through a debarker and everything goes flying and the log truck goes back down the road bouncing debris off the frame rails.
I don't remember what thread it was but this was discussed on here years ago when the EAB firewood rules first took affect.
The 50 mile radius for firewood could be seen as an effective way of spreading the problem , in one hour you could move the problem from Utica to Old Forge , just as an example.

St.Regis 06-28-2021 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geogymn (Post 286204)
The gypsies are consuming the Basswoods in my woods, also Apple.

Oswego County: GMs are going after oak, maple, aspen, birch, alder, and beech. Some sections of woods have taken a beating. It's also very dry and hot, so I imagine defoliated trees and shrubs are really stressed

Schultzz 06-28-2021 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backwoodsman (Post 286220)
Yes , it's a messy business, then after unloading the logs they get run through a debarker and everything goes flying and the log truck goes back down the road bouncing debris off the frame rails.
I don't remember what thread it was but this was discussed on here years ago when the EAB firewood rules first took affect.
The 50 mile radius for firewood could be seen as an effective way of spreading the problem , in one hour you could move the problem from Utica to Old Forge , just as an example.

Most state DEC's figure that if it is in the state already then it's too late to prevent it from starting but hopefully they can "contain" it within fifty mile radius. The purple bag traps tell them where the invasive species are. I sell kiln dried wood at a very reasonable price by selling thousands of bundles and they retail it for around $6.50 to $7.00 a bundle. My wood gets at least 250 degrees f for 30 some hours where kiln treated wood is only heated enough to kill the larvae. My friend in the Southern Tier sells "Bundle of Warmth" and used to supply all the Lowes stores east of the Mississippi. He was one of the first in the country to bear the USDA stamp and reg.number. Kiln dried wood has many advantages which I am not going to "bore" you with here. But the EAB has decimated the ash wood business in this country. Sad.

richard1726 06-29-2021 09:25 AM

I just observed the cutting of several large ash trees. These trees failed to leaf-out in 2019, were 81 years old and 38, 40, 42 inches in diameter. other than no leaves they looked ok. when they hit the rocky ground 100% of the bark literally exploded off them. we won't take any of that fire wood anywhere.

chairrock 06-30-2021 02:40 PM

Took a ride around Seneca Lake area yesterday. Lots of bug damage, looked like early spring with few leaves on many trees. My property in Yates County is taking a pounding...EAB and GMs.

peskypup 06-30-2021 06:43 PM

The first confirmed EAB infestation inside the blue line was found just down the road from me last summer, in the town of Chester. A state DOT worker noticed the damaged trees at the Warren County Canoe Launch on the Schroon River and contacted the DEC, which confirmed the infestation. Based on the extent of the damage, they estimated the EAB had been in the area for a few years already. They didn't even both treating or removing the trees, because they figured it had been here too long and already spread.

https://www.adirondackexplorer.org/s...in-adirondacks

Crash 06-30-2021 06:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
In 2006, there was an awful tent caterpillar infestation in the area. I think the infestation was in early summer. By August, the caterpillars were gone and the trees re-leafed, but the second leafing was quite weak. I took my boys for a hike up Bear Mountain near Cranberry Lake. The re-leafed trees were an odd sight. Here you can see the weak leaves of the trees on Bear Mountain (overlooking Cranberry Lake's Dead Creek Flow in the background).
Attachment 20006

Infestations like this have happened in the past and the trees have adapted to handle them.

Schultzz 07-01-2021 10:32 PM

"Infestations like this have happened in the past and the trees have adapted to handle them."
Ash trees do not "handle" the EAB invasive species, they just die and do not return. I suggest you read up on invasive species in this country. They are causing billions of lost dollars to the lumber industry, and becoming a headache to many residential communities within the park and through out the US.

St.Regis 07-01-2021 11:10 PM

Local park here is doing preemptive cutting of all ash trees. I bet 1/4 of the trees in the park are 2+ foot dbh ash. It sure will look different when they are gone

serotonin 07-02-2021 03:09 AM

Verily, we must Choppeth them up...
and Stompeth them down.

serotonin 07-02-2021 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serotonin (Post 286261)
Verily, we must Choppeth them up...
and Stompeth them down.


It'll sure look Ugly for a thousand years.

Crash 07-02-2021 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schultzz (Post 286258)
"Infestations like this have happened in the past and the trees have adapted to handle them."
Ash trees do not "handle" the EAB invasive species, they just die and do not return. I suggest you read up on invasive species in this country. They are causing billions of lost dollars to the lumber industry, and becoming a headache to many residential communities within the park and through out the US.

Infestations like the caterpillars have happened in the past and I assume that's why the trees evolved multiple leafings. It's possible (and I would guess even likely) that something similar will happen with ash trees. It'll just part of the evolution of the ash genome.

In order for the genome to evolve, a significant portion of the individual tree that do not have favorable characteristics (perhaps well over 99%) die off, leaving behind those that have "mutations" that are favorable to protecting itself from EAB. Sure its painful to watch. Maybe it'll take thousands of years before ash forests can become viable across large regions again.

Just as mankind has "interfered" with nature by bringing the EAB to this country, mankind may also "interfere" with nature by helping ash trees evolve at a faster pace through gene splicing in an effort to create a better genome.

serotonin 07-02-2021 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash (Post 286267)
Sure its painful to watch. Maybe it'll take thousands of years before ash forests can become viable across large regions again.




Who cares...?

montcalm 07-02-2021 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash (Post 286267)
Infestations like the caterpillars have happened in the past and I assume that's why the trees evolved multiple leafings. It's possible (and I would guess even likely) that something similar will happen with ash trees. It'll just part of the evolution of the ash genome.

In order for the genome to evolve, a significant portion of the individual tree that do not have favorable characteristics (perhaps well over 99%) die off, leaving behind those that have "mutations" that are favorable to protecting itself from EAB. Sure its painful to watch. Maybe it'll take thousands of years before ash forests can become viable across large regions again.

Just as mankind has "interfered" with nature by bringing the EAB to this country, mankind may also "interfere" with nature by helping ash trees evolve at a faster pace through gene splicing in an effort to create a better genome.

I suspect this will be like most of other invasive encounters in the past two centuries - it's going to kill 99% of the trees it affects. Chestnut, Elm, Beech... all the same. Different pathogens, similar impacts to the ecosystems.

Trees are incredibly versatile, in some cases forcing their own genetic selection in response to pathogens. Transposons, or transposable genes are active in many plants. Once in a while this strategy works and resistant strains can develop. We are really just starting to understand this reality in that genetics and environment are almost inseparable despite the traditional "nature vs nurture" dichotomy. It's also shown that mechanisms like this actually speed species change through evolution in response to major changes in environment. So called punctuated equilibrium. Us intervening may speed the process such as in Chestnut repopulation and Beech management. The idea is we can cheat what would, or may take thousands of years to reestablish.

Hard to say if our intervention to fix our mistakes is the right move. Law of unintended consequences says there will be negative impacts of this - but again, negative to who? Our lens is us and our economy. We see these impacts and it frustrates us but really it's a much bigger picture, one that we won't fully understand, and maybe neither will the next generation...

Schultzz 07-02-2021 06:12 PM

After a forest fire burns all the available fuel, two things happen. Biochar is created and a new forest begins. Unfortunately WE likely will not see it to fruition, but someone will benefit from it. We can only hope
that new Ash tree species will be among the new generation growth. I hope then someone else will care.

montcalm 07-02-2021 06:35 PM

It's not even that people don't care - some do, but these kind of things are going to happen. They're inevitable if we trade things globally. Same with pandemics. These things aren't new, they go back to the Silk Road.

Isolation creates specialization and genetic islands. When we, or something else, break these barriers, we have new interactions that may be unfavorable for certain species. The more intermixed the globe becomes, the more of this we will see.

We aren't really unique in this way either - natural changes have always done this sort of thing but humans can really accelerate the effects and we tend to not like the lack of a quick, short-term fix.

Tug Hill 07-03-2021 05:36 AM

I’m an Industrial Forester who worked for the largest Timberland Manager In NY, (270,000 acres under management) I’ve have not yet seen any evidence of the EAB in the core forest of Tug Hill. So the harvest prescription on the 30,000 acres we manage there, is to continue harvesting on a sustainable basis, by cutting only, unacceptable growing stock , at risk, and mature saw timber sized White Ash trees.We can only hope there are other isolated pockets of Ash trees that may be spared from this infestation.

backwoodsman 07-03-2021 09:00 AM

In 2019 there were 11 counties that hadn't confirmed EAB , now there are 4 . Lewis , Hamilton , Essex , and Washington.

montcalm 07-03-2021 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tug Hill (Post 286299)
I’m an Industrial Forester who worked for the largest Timberland Manager In NY, (270,000 acres under management) I’ve have not yet seen any evidence of the EAB in the core forest of Tug Hill. So the harvest prescription on the 30,000 acres we manage there, is to continue harvesting on a sustainable basis, by cutting only, unacceptable growing stock , at risk, and mature saw timber sized White Ash trees.We can only hope there are other isolated pockets of Ash trees that may be spared from this infestation.

What is the basal area percentage of Ash in the 30k acres?

What are the %s of other species?


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