Adirondack Forum

Adirondack Forum (http://www.adkforum.com/index.php)
-   General Adirondack Discussion (http://www.adkforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=8)
-   -   The Adirondack Mountain Reserve's no dog policy (http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=22276)

soco7tyx7 09-23-2015 08:48 PM

The Adirondack Mountain Reserve's no dog policy
 
I was planning on taking the wife and dog up to Colvin/Blake next weekend and, though I have used Lake road in the AMR several times to access the DMW, I have never done so with a dog. Due to this fact, I decided to do some quick research regarding regulation of such things and found conflicting information. It seems as though one of the posted "rules" for use of the AMR is no dogs allowed. However, after a little bit more digging, I found the official document regarding the easement and nowhere on the document is there any rule prohibiting dogs.

I typically follow the rules, as they are in place for a reason, but I found reports of people being arrested and detained by armed security guards for bringing a dog on premises. Firstly, what is the general take on the conflicting information? Second, is such practice (arresting/detaining) even legal by a security guard and does the AMR have the authority to do such things?

Though I plan to abide by the rules, this behavior seems a bit absurd.

montcalm 09-23-2015 09:07 PM

Pretty sure it's no dogs allowed. I don't know what legal authority they have, but I would respect their wishes, after all, they do allow us, the public, to use their land. Not every club is so generous.

dundee 09-24-2015 07:37 AM

They can do this as it's their property you're crossing. I'm not sure about being arrested at the gate, but I know that you will be asked to leave or make other arrangements for your dog. If people persist, the cops will be called. IDK about anyone from the AMR making an arrest or detaining someone, that would be under a citizens arrest I think and that would be a whole other issue. I've never seen anyone armed at AMR, but as mentioned, the cops are only a phone call away.

The area is a timber and game reserve, set up after the logging, fires and the decimation of the deer herds in the late 1800's. I don't think even members hunt there, but IDK for sure.

Please do the right thing and leave your dog home or hike somewhere else.

TCD 09-24-2015 09:04 AM

Agree with Montaclm and Dundee. This is actually crystal clear. I think any perception of a "conflict" is based on a misunderstanding of easements. I'm not an attorney by any means, but my understanding is that easements are inclusionary, rather than exclusionary. Meaning, the only things that you are allowed to do via the easement are the things that are specifically included in the easement. Anything else is up to the private landowner. So trying to read an easement as "It doesn't say I cannot do this or that, so it must be OK" is incorrect.

And yes, the AMR no dogs rule is VERY firm, and extremely well posted with numerous large signs.

(And the "arrest" incident was several years ago. Bluntly, a couple folks decided to be *A$$****s* and see what kind of trouble they could stir up by deliberately breaking the rules, and then deliberately provoking an incident with the AMR security staff. They succeeded (briefly) in stirring up trouble, and succeeded (permanently) in making themselves look like complete idiots.)

So yes, please obey the posted AMR rules. (Note, some people want their dog to be able to accompany them to all their 46 peaks. This is fine. Most people deal with D,N,C,B by using the (well used) bushwhack route via Gravestone Brook, or approaching from Elk Lake via Pinnacle Ridge. These approaches avoid AMR land.)

soco7tyx7 09-24-2015 10:02 AM

I do intend to follow the rules and not bring the pup on their land, I was just curious if someone could actually face legal ramifications for doing something that isn't actually listed as a prohibited action on the easement agreement.

I'll have to look into the alternate routes. I really enjoy hiking from the DMW and using it as a base as opposed to the High Peaks and it's unfortunate that the main access to most of those mountains is on private land. I'll PM if I'm having trouble finding the routes suggested. Thanks for the reply!

tgoodwin 09-24-2015 10:28 AM

I'm not sure where you might have found the "official document regarding the easement and nowhere on the document is there any rule prohibiting dogs." The deed by which the State took ownership of the higher land and the foot trail easements does clearly state that dogs are not allowed. I don't know if it is available online, but it is found in Essex County Deed Book 660, page 206.

Yes, some of the security personnel are armed. While they cannot themselves write a ticket for a violation of the rules, they can detain individuals until appropriate law enforcement arrives to write the ticket.

The prohibition on dogs goes back to the founding of the AMR in 1886. It was the only private preserve created in the 19th Century that was not created for hunting, but was instead created as a game preserve. Since using dogs to hunt deer was a common practice at that time, the AMR wanted to make sure that one could not simply turn a dog loose to chase a deer off the property.

As was mentioned, it is possible to make a dog a 46-R without going on AMR property. The 46-Rs no longer register dogs, in part because they didn't want to encourage people trying to take their dogs across AMR land.

Finally, thank you for agreeing to obey the regulations.

randy savage 09-24-2015 02:45 PM

we just used this access Friday to go up gothics and sawteeth, there is a security guy who mans the sign in cabin and if you even get that far trust me you are not going beyond that point with a dog! the place is a trip felt like I was on the set of dirty dancing or something, very fancy beautiful people everywhere they were vacuuming up the dew off the green at 7:30 am for the guests with a special machine? very impressive and trust me you wont miss the dog once you get up in this area!! check out the trout in the man made dam they use for water supply to the club had to be20-30 keepers in the clearest water you will ever see!

randy savage 09-24-2015 02:46 PM

also to note on the dog thing we saw numerous deer and in my other 20 adk high peak hikes I saw 0!

randomscooter 09-28-2015 11:21 AM

I've been thinking of getting a pygmy goat as a hiking companion. I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem on AMR lands.

montcalm 09-28-2015 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomscooter (Post 237070)
I've been thinking of getting a pygmy goat as a hiking companion. I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem on AMR lands.

Goat feces are poisonous to a rare algae that only grows in the Ausable lakes.

autochromatica 09-28-2015 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy savage (Post 236946)
...they were vacuuming up the dew off the green at 7:30 am for the guests with a special machine?

Ha ha ha, it's called a "lawn mower". :)

reindeergirl 11-12-2015 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randomscooter (Post 237070)
I've been thinking of getting a pygmy goat as a hiking companion. I'm pretty sure that won't be a problem on AMR lands.

They are also not allergic to poison ivy. The City of Boston employs them to keep conservation land and golf courses free from poison ivy. The goats have an all you can eat buffet! I love them.

Like Cheryl Strayed on the PCT, I did once see a llama on the Long Trail. He wandered away from his humans. So cute!

I don't see why dogs have to be banned if they are under control of their humans. As we have seen with all the partying going on at the top of Mt. Katahdin, humans can make more of a mess and be noisier than any of or four-footed friends. The only thing is, I would not want to subject my own pooch to a long (longer than a day) hike.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.