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-   -   Boreas Ponds biking (http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?t=23273)

tmount 06-27-2016 07:19 PM

Boreas Ponds biking
 
Until the purchase is classified, is it ok to bike to Boreas Ponds?

Justin 06-27-2016 07:45 PM

A couple months ago when a friend & I backpacked in, the DEC website mentioned "public foot traffic only, horses & bikes prohibited". Now it says:
Quote:

DEC is in the process of developing interim plans to provide trails, parking lots and waterway access sites for public use in the summer. With this announcement, the public may access and recreate on the lands and waters by non-motorized means only while a full management plan is developed.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/42077.html

TCD 06-27-2016 09:07 PM

Ride in while you can before it's locked up!

Zach 06-28-2016 10:51 AM

Can Jenny ride her own bicycle or would she have to ride on yours?
Zach

Justin 06-28-2016 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zach (Post 247126)
Can Jenny ride her own bicycle or would she have to ride on yours?
Zach

She does her best to try & keep up with me...;)
https://youtu.be/f9C2IDHbTnQ

tmount 06-30-2016 06:34 PM

I saw no reason why not to bike to Boreas Ponds. Indeed, there was a generic DEC sign at the gate saying biking is permitted on roads everywhere except in wilderness areas. So, off I went. Slight uphill much of the way but nothing difficult. The view at the first pond is, indeed, jaw dropping. But that's the only one.
It's possible to keep going around the ponds, coming back on the "winter" road, as it is called. Other bikers showed me the way.
The classification war will start soon. After today, I vote for allowing bikes and cars on the road to the first pond only. It's a long shlep to carry a boat and the ponds are not that extensive. The views from the ponds, however, are extraordinary and the best way to appreciate this exceptional spot. The road is in excellent shape.
Unlike Essex Chain of Lakes, I see no reason to keep the other roads open to bikes as there are no views or anything of special interest for bikers. Classifying the rest wilderness would be good.

Justin 06-30-2016 07:00 PM

Cool report Tmount, thanks for sharing! :thumbs:

stripperguy 07-02-2016 09:20 PM

We saw a total of ten other cyclists...a group of eight that we passed on our way in and their way out. They had camped for a few days near Sandy Brook. Two other guys doing a day trip, same as us. And there was a group of 4 backpacking in for the weekend.

Those first 2 miles have an elevation gain of nearly 600 ft, with some steep sections. 2nd gate at 3 miles in...why is it even there? Yeah, the views are impressive, really need to go back with a canoe, maybe I can rig my canoe cart into a bike towable trailer. The ride in has very few views, but plenty of shade. Temps were in the 50's, more like a fall day. Didn't have time to poke around the shore much.


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-4...2/DSC_7326.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/DSC_7352.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-O...2/DSC_7365.JPG

Justin 07-03-2016 10:55 AM

Nice photos, Stripperguy! :thumbs:

Zach 07-03-2016 09:12 PM

Is the road flooded or is that cameraman standing on a log or something? The more I look at that photo the more confused I get about what's going on. The photos are beautiful, as always.
Zach

stripperguy 07-03-2016 10:13 PM

Zach,
Thanks for the compliment...sometimes I get lucky!!
That part of the road is about half way between the Lebiere Flow views and the bridge at the Boreas Ponds dam. There is a small watercourse next to the road, with a partially collapsed culvert running under the road. The water on the road was maybe 3 inches deep at most. The day before had torrential rains, so I would guess that the spot would dry up in a day or two. The water was still overflowing onto the road when we passed through. It must be a frequent occurrence, you can see in the photo (with hickoryskier, not MDB) a saw horse with flagging to warn of a problem. The road was plenty firm, so even though it was not a problem, it sure looks good in the brochure!

Buckladd 07-07-2016 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmount (Post 247256)
I After today, I vote for allowing bikes and cars on the road to the first pond only.

If you are referring to Lebiere Flow (just before the little log cabin), I totally agree.

**BOREAS** 07-07-2016 07:41 PM

I'm guessing everyone on this thread has conveniently missed this notice on DEC's website:

Quote:

Boreas Ponds Tract
•The State of New York has completed the purchase of the tract. (4/15)
•While DEC develops an interim recreation plan, access to the tract will be limited to foot traffic only beyond the closed gate. Motor vehicles, bikes and horses are prohibited. (4/15)
•Additionally, the public is prohibited from trespassing in and around the lodge on Boreas Pond and the leased hunting camps. (4/15)
It is found on DEC's trail condition page for the High Peaks region.

Justin 07-07-2016 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **BOREAS** (Post 247490)
I'm guessing everyone on this thread has conveniently missed this notice on DEC's website:



It is found on DEC's trail condition page for the High Peaks region.

Boreas,
That was back in April.
You must have missed the latest update:
Quote:

"May 2016: Governor Cuomo announced that the 20,758-acre purchase of the Boreas Ponds Tract caps acquisition of 69,000 acres of lands from The Nature Conservancy. DEC is in the process of developing interim plans to provide trails, parking lots and waterway access sites for public use in the summer. With this announcement, the public may access and recreate on the lands and waters by non-motorized means only while a full management plan is developed."]May 2016: Governor Cuomo announced that the 20,758-acre purchase of the Boreas Ponds Tract caps acquisition of 69,000 acres of lands from The Nature Conservancy. DEC is in the process of developing interim plans to provide trails, parking lots and waterway access sites for public use in the summer. With this announcement, the public may access and recreate on the lands and waters by non-motorized means only while a full management plan is developed."
Here's the updated link:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/42077.html

**BOREAS** 07-07-2016 08:09 PM

Says nothing about bikes.

The notice I posted was originally publicized in April, yes, but the page is updated weekly. Most recently today.

Justin 07-07-2016 08:17 PM

Ok thanks for your update.
When in doubt one can always call the NYSDEC office in Ray Brook at 518-897-1200, or try the Warrensburg office at 518-623-1200.

**BOREAS** 07-07-2016 08:19 PM

Have you done so?

Justin 07-07-2016 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **BOREAS** (Post 247496)
Have you done so?

Not since a couple months ago when I called before heading in to get clarification on the vague notice posted on their website.
How about you?

**BOREAS** 07-07-2016 08:24 PM

I can read the plain English on the website that says "no bikes" without pretending it means something else.

If you call and it turns out the website is wrong, you might suggest an update.

Justin 07-07-2016 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **BOREAS** (Post 247498)
I can read the plain English on the website that says "no bikes" without pretending it means something else.

If you call and it turns out the website is wrong, you might suggest an update.

Wow! :confused:

Respectfully, it says in plain English in the link that you provided that it was last updated "4/15" for the Boreas Tract. There's nothing in the updated link that says "no bikes".

montcalm 07-07-2016 08:39 PM

Better keep those evil bikes off that 12 foot wide, graded, mad-made gravel road. God only knows what they could do to the environs! :gripe:

Until the state gives it a designation, I don't see it as a big deal...

**BOREAS** 07-07-2016 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin (Post 247500)
Wow! :confused:

Respectfully, it says in plain English in the link that you provided that it was last updated "4/15" for the Boreas Tract. There's nothing in the updated link that says "no bikes".

I'm sure you're a good guy, no ill wishes here.

But to be absolutely clear, the link I posted was updated today. Otherwise known as July 7, 2016 A.D. No bikes allowed. Clear, unambiguous, easy to understand. The link you posted never mentions the word bike at all. You're imagining loopholes where none exist.

Justin 07-07-2016 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **BOREAS** (Post 247504)
I'm sure you're a good guy, no ill wishes here.

But to be absolutely clear, the link I posted was updated today. Otherwise known as July 7, 2016 A.D. No bikes allowed. Clear, unambiguous, easy to understand. The link you posted never mentions the word bike at all. You're imagining loopholes where none exist.

Got it, thanks again.
Clearly the DEC is not the best at updating or being crystal clear with notifications posted on their website, and as I mentioned at the end of page 1, it's probably best to call and ask if in doubt. If I get the chance to call tomorrow during their office hours I will do that, just to clear up our confusion.
Best regards.
- Justin

TCD 07-07-2016 09:13 PM

I have no plans to ride in the area, but I sent Region 5 the following email just now, because I agree that the overall guidance from DEC is a bit vague:

"Hi,

I have seen discussions on line of bicycle use on Gulf Brook Road, riding to Boreas Ponds. I have no plans to ride in the area, but people are curious as to whether this notice from April is still current:

Boreas Ponds Tract
•While DEC develops an interim recreation plan, access to the tract will be limited to foot traffic only beyond the closed gate. Motor vehicles, bikes and horses are prohibited. (4/15)

or whether it is superseded by this notice (on a different page) from May, which suggests that as a "non-motorized means" bicycles would be allowed:

May 2016: Governor Cuomo announced that the 20,758-acre purchase of the Boreas Ponds Tract caps acquisition of 69,000 acres of lands from The Nature Conservancy. DEC is in the process of developing interim plans to provide trails, parking lots and waterway access sites for public use in the summer. With this announcement, the public may access and recreate on the lands and waters by non-motorized means only while a full management plan is developed.

Can you clarify this?

Thanks."

I will let you know what response I get.

Bob K 07-08-2016 05:07 PM

FWIW – I met a DEC officer recently who indicated that there is doubt as to the enforceability of a no-bike policy currently as the land is not yet classified is such a way that prohibits it (such as Wilderness or Primitive). If you want to bike it, now is the time as it might be prohibited and enforceable someday.

FWIW (2) – I did recently bike 12 miles of dirt roads in the Essex Chain area. Frankly, it’s not that interesting unless you get to a specific scenic location such as one of the ponds or big river. That area too, was supposedly off limits to bikes upon NY State ownership (but really wasn’t officially), then later officially banned I believe, now allowed. Essex is a worthy (but small) paddling destination that gets much more day use than overnights – partially due to the ban on fires on the waterfront campsites. You can easily paddle the whole chain in a day trip. If I go there again it will be to paddle, or ski.

stripperguy 07-08-2016 07:52 PM

Here is the only sign that I took a photo of:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l...0/DSC_7290.JPG

I'm sure it's not legible, but the relevant part says:

ATTENTION
no public motor vehicle use beyond this point

Other verbage refers to yielding right of way to traffic, etc.

TCD 07-09-2016 01:10 PM

I received a definitive reply from DEC Region 5 spokesperson David Winchell::

"DEC’s position regarding use of Gulf Brook Road is the statement on our website: “access to the tract will be limited to foot traffic only beyond the closed gate. Motor vehicles, bikes and horses are prohibited.”

The press release was an announcement of the purchase and did not provide all the details of the usage.

I hope this helps clear up the debate."

So it's closed to bikes, at least right now.

tmount 07-23-2016 08:57 AM

And, as I said in my 2nd post, there is nothing at the first gate about no bikes. There is, a sign, however, stqting bikes are permitted in non-wilderness areas.

Trail Boss 07-23-2016 10:39 AM

Probably nothing posted explicitly forbidding mountain boards either or hovercraft, soap-box derby cars, wheeled sofas, and other rolling stock. None of 'em are "public motor vehicles" with the exception of the hovercraft but you can claim you're barely touching the ground.

/sarcasm

bmike-vt 07-23-2016 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail Boss (Post 248084)
Probably nothing posted explicitly forbidding mountain boards either or hovercraft, soap-box derby cars, wheeled sofas, and other rolling stock. None of 'em are "public motor vehicles" with the exception of the hovercraft but you can claim you're barely touching the ground.

/sarcasm

If I pull a couch in with a canoe cart to camp and pull it out is it OK?


/s


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