Sawtooth #3 05-11-2006

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  • Neil
    Admin

    • May 2004
    • 6127

    #1

    Sawtooth #3 05-11-2006

    Be nice to me, I gave blood today.

    My confidence was bolstered by a relatively easy day (by Sawtooth Range standards) on ST4 so I studied a route for my one remaining ST from the Averyville rd. Last February, while almost back to the beaver pond from ST2 this winter Tom Haskins pointed upslope and said that was the beginning of a “shortcut” to ST3. He hadn’t travelled the route but he said it looked not too bad on Topo! And indeed it doesn’t look all that bad when your sitting in your chair at home with a cold brew.

    I’m on a map and compass kick and so I made a route with 10 “checkpoints” that did double duty as waypoints once I had loaded them into my gps. I had brought along the gps for backup and in order to record a tracklog. I sent the route to Nessmuk for any comments he would care to make and he emailed 2 pages of analysis which, once in the field, proved to be particularly helpful.

    Once past the beaver dam that lays to the south of the Pine Pond Road we (myself and Doug Hillman) continued for only a short ways on the old woods road before heading off into the bush. We climbed up a moderate slope on a bearing for about 15 minutes before I was completely disoriented . Stopping and checking the map made me realize that we hadn’t left the woods road where I though we would and that my checkpoint 1 was off. We had no visuals at all so we just followed the compass bearing figuring we couldn’t really go too wrong.

    Before long we could see the 2 hills we were proceeding between and I was able to “triangulate” our position. Eventually, we got to checkpoint 2, made a course adjustment, hit checkpoint 3, another adjustment….basically playing a game of pinball, bouncing from checkpoint to checkpoint as we headed in a southerly direction. By playing attention to little details like the slope of the land and sighting on the big knob 1032 to our east, watching the minutes tick past and using the altimeter we almost always knew where we were. I cheated and took a peak at the gps at checkpoint 4 and we were 50 meters north of it.

    The going was super easy all the way. Open forest with all of last years plantlife laying flat like a brown carpet. Gentle slopes. We were making excellent time. The first real ascent was an 800 foot climb up to the saddle that lies to the east of Sawtooth#1. The climb nice and open but with many a femur eating hole. Coming back we would have to be real careful.

    So far, this was looking like a super route into ST3.

    We found an outcrop and got our first views of 3 a scant 2½ klicks away. We had about a 500 foot drop to a big open marsh and the going was decidedly thicker. Nothing horrendous but pretty thick all the same. Great views up to our objective from the marsh and then the final push began. It started out pretty thick and we were doing a lot of zigzagging looking for clear channels and avoiding the blowdown. Then it got thicker, and thicker and finally got to the point where nearly every meter of progress was a separate problem to be solved. My arms were working harder than my legs. It was heartbreakingly thick. Every once in a while we would get lucky and walk 6 easy feet along the base of a root system of a fallen tree. I started using the gps to check our progress and it was even more demoralizing to see how slowly the distance decreased. Time was passing rapidly and we committed ourselves to exiting via the Northville Placid Trail.

    Surrounded by the worst conifer jungle I’ve ever been in, committed to getting up and over the mountain as the turnaround time came and went and wondering what the descent held in store for us was a rather anxiety provoking set of circumstances. The stress level increased a tiny bit with every step. Getting to within 300 meters was a milestone but it might as well have been 3000. Finally, we made the ridge that runs from the col (between 3 and its little sub-summit) to the summit. Looking at this final section on the map makes it look fairly benign but it sure kicked our butts.

    Doug, who had been having intestinal trouble all day suddenly needed another bathroom break and announced that he suddenly felt real bad, like, REAL BAD. We were 180 meters from the top and the ridge was fairly open with almost no more elevation gain. I asked him if he wanted to sit and wait but he wasn’t having any of that and we pressed on. The last 50 feet is blowdown hell up there but we finally made it. There were no views that I could see from the summit but on the final approach we could see from our ST1 saddle around past ST1 to ST 2 and maybe 4 off in the distance.

    It was time to get the hell out of there (past 3:00) and we dropped off the east side aiming our way so as to avoid what we thought might be cliffs and went down to Moose Creek not quite avoiding the swamp but missing the worst of it. We picked up the NPT and within minutes caught up with a couple who were finishing their 20th complete trip. They were the editors of the guidebook. We took a break at the LT at Moose Pond and chatted with 2 guys who were finishing the next day when the 20-timers pulled in to camp. You tell people what you just did but there«,s no way they imagine it. We learned we had roughly 9 miles of trail to cover to get to the Trailhead which was miles from our cars. However, a few miles down the trail the old NPT made a bee-line straight to our cars and we thought we’d give that a try. So, at 6:45 we’re 2½ gps miles from the cars searching for this old trail realizing we’re basically bushwhacking into the falling darkness. We cut back and bushwhacked back to the “new” NPT and proceeded to take it on the chin hiking mile after mile as the headlamps came out and we kept hiking until we hit the road at 9:45. Just as we were exiting I had a brainwave and had Doug call us a taxi on that cell phone of his. The guy drove out from Placid and took us to our cars asking for 5 bucks! I was ready to pay 50.

    I don’t know why but I wasn’t all that tired and even stayed awake easily on the drive home. And so now I have done all 5 of the Sawtooths. This one was by far and away the toughest hike of them all.
    The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.
  • Iceman
    • Mar 2006
    • 77

    #2
    Great report Neil, glad you all got back safe. Good thing the cell phone worked out there!

    Comment

    • Kevin
      **BANNED**
      • Nov 2003
      • 5857

      #3
      Neil, as interesting as some of your adventures are I get this uneasy feeling I'm going to be reading about a failed adventure in the newspapers someday. Where does being on the line and over the edge of it get drawn?

      Sorry friend, consider this post my civic duty. Hell, I'd miss your posts around here if you suddenly disappeared... so part of this is selfish.

      And it's not just you. There's people doing trail work this weekend in the cold rain, work that could easily be rescheduled. I guess it's a "I'm a tough hiker" mentality, the same mentality that drives people into situations they sometimes don't survive. Lords knows I've made my fair share of mistakes. I'm hoping what didn't kill me made me stronger, and now I avoid putting myself in those situations. There's enough opportunities for **** to go wrong without me intentionally lower my odds for survival. Maybe some don't see it, but I equate a lot of what I see (like intentionally hiking without headlamps and no moonlight) and hear about as sky diving without a parachute.

      [/rant]

      Comment

      • Neil
        Admin

        • May 2004
        • 6127

        #4
        Originally posted by Kevin
        Where does being on the line and over the edge of it get drawn?
        Kevin,
        The stuff I do in the ADKs at age 50 pales in comparison to the stuff I did in my 20's.

        On all of my trips I prepare (and psych myself) for the eventuality of a night bushwhack as well as an unexpected (but uncomfortable) night out. Anxiety and stress is a part of some of these sorts of trips and definitely must be managed, especially when alone. Even on this trip we were very far from the edge. We hit the NPT 3 hours before darkness. I still think the drive home is the most dangerous part of my hiking day.



        I don't think it's a question of, "I'm a tough hiker" mentality. I think it's a drive for a certain feeling and state of being when "way back there" not unlike that which pushes mountain climbers to do their thing. Except the odds of dying while hiking the 3000 footers of the dacks are infintesimally small. I often try and figure it out and all I can come up with is, "I love the way it makes me feel".
        Last edited by Neil; 05-12-2006, 10:21 PM.
        The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

        Comment

        • Rik
          H-E-R-O
          • Nov 2004
          • 1000247

          #5
          Originally posted by Kevin
          Neil, as interesting as some of your adventures are I get this uneasy feeling I'm going to be reading about a failed adventure in the newspapers someday. Where does being on the line and over the edge of it get drawn?


          [/rant]
          Everyone's line is different.
          Die Free and Live

          Comment

          • Rookie
            Dream Farmer
            • Apr 2005
            • 899

            #6
            Wow- that was a gripping report....that sounds like a lot of really hard work.
            Maybe working through the stress makes it all that much more rewarding at the end of the day even though it's hell while it's happening ?
            Sounds like the mental aggravation would ruin the moment too much for me...but then
            I've read enough of your posts to know we have some similarities...and since you like it...I'll have to try it sometime.
            What it is is in your head !

            Comment

            • Neil
              Admin

              • May 2004
              • 6127

              #7
              Originally posted by Rik
              Everyone's line is different.
              Right.


              Originally posted by Rookie
              Wow- that was a gripping report....that sounds like a lot of really hard work.
              Only the last thick section getting from the swamp to the summit. The rest was great but that last section tends to dominate and colour the memories of the day. My companion, Doug, felt a lot better by the time we got half way down the mtn. The long hike out on the NPT was not that bad because there's no elevation gain and the trail was very easy to walk on by ADK standards. In a sense, the hike was over once we were a third of the way down. The rest was getting back to the cars.

              Originally posted by Rookie
              Maybe working through the stress makes it all that much more rewarding at the end of the day even though it's hell while it's happening ?
              A whole day of hell would be pretty bad. A certain amount of stress during the first few hours of a solo bushwhack I attribute to the contrast between being out hiking and my "normal" life.
              Accepting that fear as part of the experience, realizing that it's not a rational fear and then continuing on in spite of its presence usually results in it dissipating fairly quickly. OTOH a heightened sense of awareness is a good thing and never leaves me when I'm alone.
              Originally posted by Rookie
              I've read enough of your posts to know we have some similarities...and since you like it...I'll have to try it sometime.
              It's a head space thing. Give it a shot.
              The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

              Comment

              • Mavs00
                I am the sith
                • Nov 2007
                • 46

                #8
                Yeah Neil, your a BAD, BAD man. what kinda moron goes out and intentionally puts himself through this kind of thing. You ought to be ashamed of yourself for leading Doug (and his leaky bum) into the depraved abyss that is your idea of recreation.

                [/silly_ facetious_rant]

                Seriously, I applaud your spirit and understand your affliction. I know this may sound really strange to some of you.... but the feeling of a hard earned summit that looks like -THIS ONE- (yes, that is the summit), can be every bit as uplifting and rewarding as the summit of -THIS ONE-.

                Not visually of course, but in a very different internally spiritual way. It's very visceral. Not everyone feels it (case in point, see the wife's look in photo #1). For me, there is a huge rush to look down while walking in the woods and NOT see a trail or anything else man has already provided for me. As weird as it sounds every wooded ADK remote summit I reach along the way gives me a rush of excitement similar to when I was first "chasing the 46". The harder it is, the greater the reward.

                Okay, I'll stop blathering on now, I can't explain it real well, words are NOT my strong suit, but hopefully you get the idea.


                If I "go missing" one day, you have my official permission to post the "I told him so" thread.

                Great report Neil, in some twisted way, I'm sad I wasn't there, sounds like one hellava rewarding climb. Kudos for the ST range finish. Least I'll close out the sentinels first
                Last edited by Mavs00; 04-21-2011, 02:23 PM.
                "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger. " Supreme Chancellor

                Comment

                • Kevin
                  **BANNED**
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 5857

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mavs00
                  If I "go missing" one day, you have my official permission to post the "I told him so" thread.
                  That isn't the point at all. This is about the people who read these adventures who think they're fun but fail to realize the actual risks and real dangers involved.

                  There's 2 key issues that set me off regarding Neil's supposedly well prepared hike (30 years of hiking experience aside, he should have known better):

                  1 - ignored turn around time(s) and summited anyway ["It was time to get the hell out of there (past 3:00)" - if this wasn't 'late' then why "get the hell out of there" or mention this at all? Just a walk in the park, right? We're not late so 3PM is just fine, fun hike with no elements of danger because everything's just as it's supposed to be...]

                  2 - sick hiking partner was allowed to take another step forward when they should have never set foot on the trail that day ("diarrhea can cause dehydration, which means the body lacks enough fluid to function properly."). last time I checked, being hydrated ranks at the top of the list of necessities for a successful hike, especially one as strenuous as a bushwhack up a mountain.


                  Here's a thread I feel needs some revisiting:




                  The important thing here is to admit there were mistakes made, there was an element of danger (and an unhealthy degree of pleasured derived from it), and both of these things don't seem to phase a certain class of outdoors enthusiast. Yes, I also feel climbers of Everest are thrill seeking addicts and yes I think it's a form of suicide. But that's for another thread I'm sure...

                  Comment

                  • Mavs00
                    I am the sith
                    • Nov 2007
                    • 46

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Kevin
                    That isn't the point at all. This is about the people who read these adventures who think they're fun but fail to realize the actual risks and real dangers involved.
                    I can't speak for Neil, or Hillman ..... and won't pretend to, neither do I have to stick up for them. But there is NOTHING I do in my life where "I fail to realize the actual risks and dangers involved", but thanks anyway

                    I am quite certain Neil was in a perfect situation to properly access his situation and make appropriate discretionary decisions. Anyone familiar with backcountry OFF-TRAIL travel in difficult terrain can read this report for what it is. A difficult day and a rewarding summit with a successful completion (although later than hoped for). Is there risks to this activity , of course, and if you are not prepared to take then, THEN DON"T. But make no mistake. There is a WORLD of difference between having to push through a few slow tenths of a mile of thick conifers and ACTUAL physical peril.

                    By your comments alone, I see your not real familar with topo terrain back there (why would you be unless you were planning something back there too). The thing is from the swamp, the best option was up over the peak and back down the other side to the NPT and out (what they in fact did). Turn around time was figurative, not an about face reality.

                    It's real easy to be an armchair quarterback, but harder when you only have half a playbook (we know only half the story). With all due respect, I think your criticism, while sincere, is unfounded in this case for the most part, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

                    That is simply my opinion and we need not argue this to death.
                    Last edited by Mavs00; 05-14-2006, 07:30 AM.
                    "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger. " Supreme Chancellor

                    Comment

                    • Mavs00
                      I am the sith
                      • Nov 2007
                      • 46

                      #11
                      Oh, by the way, when I read the initial report, it was very similar to one that you did last year Kevin (the b-whack off Couchsachraga ). One could easily say "What were they thinking". I didn't, my thought was, what an adventure.

                      All this was was just a hike that didn't go exactly as planned, and it took a little longer than expected. Great report.
                      Last edited by Mavs00; 05-14-2006, 07:45 AM.
                      "I can feel your anger. It gives you focus. It makes you stronger. " Supreme Chancellor

                      Comment

                      • Kevin
                        **BANNED**
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 5857

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Mavs00
                        Oh, by the way, when I read the initial report, it was very similar to one that you did last year Kevin (the b-whack off Couchsachraga ). One could easily say "What were they thinking". I didn't, my thought was, what an adventure.
                        I've admitted my mistakes. Having never said "I'm perfect" or "I never make mistakes" the fact you feel the need to discredit me further colors the true shade of your character. We've ALL made mistakes. That's the point of this thread:



                        I read your second to last post, and like me YOU only have half the story book so your analysis is just as flawed (but apparently you feel that it should be considered more accurate because it's YOUR analysis, eh?). We can only post based on what's posted, if there's more information it will be shared by those involved.

                        Perhaps the fundamental issue unlying all this is whether hikes like this 1- need to take place (considering the turn back time issue(s) and a hiker's health), and/or 2 - whether hikers on such a trek care about the risks, either because they're addicted to the thrill of danger or just don't value their personal safety (suicidal).

                        Last night someone in private pointed out that an Everest group of 6 died a few years back, all of them the most experienced hikers on the mountain. Why did they die? Some feel it was because they ignored their turn around time. I'm sure they got away with bending their personal safety rules a few dozen times before, but eventually bending their rules killed them.

                        If you're dehydrated and/or tired, you increase the odds of making poor decisions (like foot placement, sending you tumbling).

                        Everyone has a past, don't forget.
                        Last edited by Kevin; 05-14-2006, 10:14 AM. Reason: making it more civil

                        Comment

                        • Skyclimber
                          SAFE CLIMBING
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 1086

                          #13
                          My 2 cents worth is:

                          The Sawtooth Range is one of the toughest to do. The Hundred Highest is one HELL of a big goal and achievement to one who wishes to challenge it. It takes alot of guts and determination to even consider doing this in the first place. It is so much more of a mental and physical challenge than the Forty Six itself. It takes expertise in Map, Compass and GPS Skills and I admire anyone who has successfully reached this goal!

                          We have all ignored our turn-around times, in one incident or another and have frailed out just fine. When one is so close to the summit (or think we are) and it has been one heck of a long journey and struggle to get there, all we think about is reaching that ultimate goal, the summit. It's easier to make a turn-around time than to actually stick to it.

                          We have no right to place judgement on anyone! It's easier to throw stones at one another, when we don't know the exact circumstances because we weren't there.
                          "It is easier to become a Forty-Sixer than to be one. The art of the being is to keep one's sense of wonder after the excitement of the game is over."

                          Paul Jamieson Class of '58

                          Comment

                          • Neil
                            Admin

                            • May 2004
                            • 6127

                            #14
                            Addicted to the thrill of danger? Not me.


                            That turnaround time was for if we went back to the cars using our entry route. Baling to the NPT was something we discussed earlier. With the tough going, Doug's watery stool issue and the fact he was starting the NPT the very next day we decided to go up and over the mtn. This of course rendered the turnaround time obsolete. I mentioned not knowing what was in store for us on the descent to the NPT but I did know that friends had gone up and down that way. We left the top greater than 5 hours before sunset and were OK with the notion of whacking in the dark if need be.

                            Doug felt fine right up to where he suddenly felt bad. His colour and strength always remained at a healthy level. I kept talking to him and his voice sounded good all the time. He drank gatoraid and ate regularly. When I suggested he sit and wait he said there was no *'ing way. I've hiked with Doug a lot and know how deep he can dig. If he had become prostated then yeah, there would have been a serious problem. I would have used his phone and stayed with him. If no phone then I would have still stayed with him, lit a fire, made a shelter, gotten water etc. and waited.

                            I remember we talked about what a hike like that would be for a novice hiker and how a person could get freaked out. Then we compared what we were doing to climbing in the Himalayas or in the Brooks range. Pretty tame, really.

                            As for people reading the report and then going and getting themselves into trouble then that's their problem. This is a forum. A public meeting place for open discussion.

                            The hike was well prepared. I had planned it as a solo hike (I had just solo'd ST4 the week before) and had researched it, e-mailed the route to Wldrns for his analysis, had the route in my mapping gps for backup, carried 3 sets of printed maps, 2 compasses, 2 headlamps, insulated clothing, rainwear. etc. A jpeg of the route, the phone number of the DEC and a reminder that I had a radio (with plenty of fresh lithium batteries) all sat on the desktop of the PC for Sylvie to bring up and she could e-mail the route to any SAR team that wanted it. Interestingly, Doug's phone always had service so our route change wasn't a potential problem. In fact, he notified his GF of our change in itinerary right from the summit. One thing I could have/should have done is use the phone to inform Sylvie of our change in route.
                            The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                            Comment

                            • Kevin
                              **BANNED**
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 5857

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Neil
                              Except the odds of dying while hiking the 3000 footers of the dacks are infintesimally small.
                              Complacency is probably the biggest psychological foe a hiker faces. How many times have I finished a strenuous hike and thought "why the hell did I do that?", etc? But at the time I made my decisions it seemed sensible despite the personal rules I set forth prior to hitting the trail. It's this thinking that gets the most experienced hikers into trouble time and time again. Where's redhawk with his public service announcements?

                              BTW, thanks for the clarifications in your prior post .


                              Originally posted by Skyclimber2971w
                              We have all ignored our turn-around times, in one incident or another and have frailed out just fine. When one is so close to the summit (or think we are) and it has been one heck of a long journey and struggle to get there, all we think about is reaching that ultimate goal, the summit. It's easier to make a turn-around time than to actually stick to it.
                              Marta, I don't subscribe to the "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger" mentality. 7 years ago I stopped doing drugs, I am an addict. It hadn't killed me, but my addiction had tried many times for many years. I'm 100% certain had I continued to use drugs I would not be here today. If I go back it could kill me with the first hit. Worse case I'd suffer like I had been for years. No thanks. That "what doesn't come out in the wash comes out in the rinse" thinking is for the birds. I value my life too much today.

                              I feel it is more important to promote setting and following of rules than suggesting that so long as YOU feel it's okay to bend them, it is. My conscience won't allow for such suggestions to fall from my lips.
                              Last edited by Kevin; 05-14-2006, 11:29 AM.

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