Two students drown

[Wldrns]

Press Republican story: Body of second missing Paul Smith's student found.

I know the weekend was very windy, I don't know about how it was at 11:30 PM on Friday. Did this say 11:30 PM?? Canoeing in icy water at night? The story is very sketchy on if alcohol was involved, but it did say there was a party going on (police "do know that there was a party" and that he knew the students were "associated with individuals at the party"). What college party, especially near graduation time does not involve alcohol? And a powerboat capsized as well. NCPR and WNBZ report no life vests were found on the bodies. Draw no conclusions until the facts are out, but geeze....

[charlie wilson]

Let's see:

1. Three people per tandem canoe
2. No PFDs
3. Water in ~45dg range
4. Not dressed for emersion
5. Maybe drinking
6. Paddling at night

It normally only takes three strikes to be called out.

There are three groups of paddlesport fatalities.
1. Those expert WW paddlers who guess wrong, knowing it could happen.
2. Those who are unlucky.
3. Those who are clueless

The Paul Smith's situation an instance of group 3; unfortunate, but they did almost everything wrong.

[Hobbitling]

you forgot the fourth group, those who know better when they're sober, but become unlucky and clueless when drunk.
These are Paul Smith's students, so I would think they are a little more outdoorsey than the average college student and know at least the basics of water safety. or Maybe not

[redhawk]

you forgot the fourth group, those who know better when they're sober, but become unlucky and clueless when drunk.
These are Paul Smith's students, so I would think they are a little more outdoorsey than the average college student and know at least the basics of water safety. or Maybe not

And then there is the most dangerous type.

Those who have experience, but come to think that the basic rules of safety are only for the inexperienced. That group incurs the highest incident of fatalities.

[sacredloon]

It was really awful. I was up there fishing and saw the drama unfolding. I was on campus when it was happenning and saw the parents crying and it was just awful. The water is ice cold, I was camping nearby and the wind gave some big gusts on Saturday, but not at night. It was very still. Being an alumni, and remembering back to when I was there at this time of year, there had to be alcohol involved, especially right before graduation.
The bigger question is how did they get canoes out at night, and who is going to take the heat for this devastating event.

no PFD's...leans me to believe these were private canoes of the students. Still, even if students have canoes of their own, shouldn't there be a rule against taking them out until the water reaches a certain temperature and then only during daylight hours? Seems like this could have been easily prevented. Would the college security be dumb enough to let out a canoe at night with the water that temp, and no PFD's? Many questions, few answers! very sad.

[AdkWiley]

The canoes were their own. School canoes arnt availible to be taken out yet due to the water being too cold. Most of the students have taken a canoe saftey course that they have going on for orientation durring the summer. Its a horrbile thing that happened. Campus is not good, many of the finals were canceled, its such a small campus community up there so it really affected everyone. I myself had classes with with both of the deceased and they were both great kids. My good friend barely made it out of the water that night, he was in one of the canoes. Horrible way to end the school year.

[Wldrns]

update

A report on NCPR confirms what we likely already suspected. "Alcohol a factor in fatal canoe accident"

[John P]

Also, in an NCPR report from May 9:
"State police investigators say two Paul Smiths College students who drowned last Friday night were paddling on Lower St. Regis Lake without life jackets."

It looks as if just about every mistake that it's possible to make, they made.

Sigh.

Edited to say oops, the lack of PFD's was already noted.

But I wonder if it's a coincidence that the two canoes overturned at the same time, along with a powerboat. Or was someone doing yet more stuff to make the situation dangerous? At the time they said the powerboat "ran over its own wake".

[Trout Bum]

What Do You Mean?

It was really awful. I was up there fishing and saw the drama unfolding. I was on campus when it was happenning and saw the parents crying and it was just awful. The water is ice cold, I was camping nearby and the wind gave some big gusts on Saturday, but not at night. It was very still. Being an alumni, and remembering back to when I was there at this time of year, there had to be alcohol involved, especially right before graduation.
The bigger question is how did they get canoes out at night, and who is going to take the heat for this devastating event.

no PFD's...leans me to believe these were private canoes of the students. Still, even if students have canoes of their own, shouldn't there be a rule against taking them out until the water reaches a certain temperature and then only during daylight hours? Seems like this could have been easily prevented. Would the college security be dumb enough to let out a canoe at night with the water that temp, and no PFD's? Many questions, few answers! very sad.

What do you mean, who's gonna take the fall? and insinuating that its some how security's fault....Its the kids fault, or should I say ADULTS fault, because thats what they are were. NO ONE ELSES!
Ever since the advent of the attorney in this country, many people do not take responsibility for anything,...its always someone elses fault. If I drinks and drive and kill someone...Its the bars fault for serving me. If I spill hot coffee on myself...Its McDonald's fault.... Lets see besides security,..its The Parks fault,...The beer company, the canoe manufacturer (cause there is no warnings in 34 different languages about operating in the dark while drinking....and so on, and so on....
This is a tragedy, a preventable accident, plain and simple. And it was their Fault.

[ADKHUNTER]

What do you mean, who's gonna take the fall? and insinuating that its some how security's fault....Its the kids fault, or should I say ADULTS fault, because thats what they are were. NO ONE ELSES!
Ever since the advent of the attorney in this country, many people do not take responsibility for anything,...its always someone elses fault. If I drinks and drive and kill someone...Its the bars fault for serving me. If I spill hot coffee on myself...Its McDonald's fault.... Lets see besides security,..its The Parks fault,...The beer company, the canoe manufacturer (cause there is no warnings in 34 different languages about operating in the dark while drinking....and so on, and so on....
This is a tragedy, a preventable accident, plain and simple. And it was their Fault.

Well said Trout Bum. Nothing frustrates me more than people making excuses and not taking ownership of their own stupidity.

[sacredloon]

Of course it is their own faults. I agree with you Trout Bum.

When I made the original post I did not know if they were the school's canoes, or the students own personal canoes, so i was speculating. I was thinking if the school had signed out canoes while the water was still so cold, that it would be the fault of the school and security, legally (not logically or morally) It's not the case, so it's not an issue. Of course it is still their own fault, I was questioning the access to the canoes, and liability on school property at the time, then ADK wiley posted they were personal canoes. Its really sad and it was so preventable with simple common sense and rules.

[ALGonquin Bob]

another incident like this one

In Alaska this week, the body of one student has been found (she was from Saranac Lake), and 2 others presumed drowned in a similar canoe accident. A digital camera that was found shows one or more of them consuming alcohol while in the canoe; none of them was wearing a PFD. What a tragedy.