Quick Rod & Reel Advice Needed

[beaverPond]

Hi all -

I know this subject could be endless but I am looking for some quick advice on a new fly fishing setup. I fish streams/rivers for brook/brown trout, but not for the lake spawners. So I am talking about 20 inch trout max, if I am that lucky one day.

Currently I have a cheap 6 weight setup with a cheap no name reel. I think I need a smaller weight rod and a more sensitive reel in terms of drag. Last night I finally got a fish on only for it to break the tippet to leader knot(it slipped apart). The trout was about 14 inches. The trout took all my slack while running. I thought I was going to be able to tire the fish enough to get it in at this point. I was excited because it felt like it could be 14+. My drag was on the lightest setting. I had the trout about 25 feet from me holding steady. Just as I felt like I had him ready for a slow landing it made another run. It took some drag, held steady again, and then made a quick jerk. When it made a quick jerk there was no drag taken and the tippet let loose(broke/slipped from leader). I feel like if I had a more sensitive drag I would have gotten this fish. I left extremely frustrated because it was the only fish that even looked at my fly for 5 hours.

I am sure some of this loss is because I am not that great at landing these trout yet. But any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
beaverPond

[trouthunter]

I think a lot of us feel your frustration with losing a nice fish! Im sure you will get a lot of good advice from the group on this board.
I am by no means a expert on rods/reels but I dont think you lost the fish due to your equipment. You said the "tippet to leader knot slipped apart" and I think that is what your problem was.
I dont spend a lot of money on fancy rod and reels. Its not that I dont appreciate them or that I dont envy them its because Im on a budget.I like all types of fishing but my favorite is flyfishing for brook/brown/rainbow trout in streams.My favorite rod is 7'6" 4 wt that I bought from Cabelas.It is sensitive enough for the small brookies and has caught me browns up to 20". If I had to choose one rod for all my flyfishing I would probaly choose a 6 wt so I was sure I had enough rod for Lakers and Bass.
One of my rods is a 8' 5wt that I use on larger streams (W. Canada) and the reel doesnt even have a drag on it. I like using this as it is challenging landing large browns knowing I have to be the one adjusting the drag with my finger on the line.When Im fishing brookies I rarely bring them in on the reel.I apply drag with my finger and strip in line by hand.
Just remember you can spend as much as you want on fancy equipment but if the basic skills and techniques arent used you will still lose fish.I have broken a couple rods in the last couple of years and I wonder how heartbroken I wouldve been if they were expensive.
A friend of mine bought a $700 rod to reward himself for quitting smoking.Its a extremely nice rod and it casts awesome but I could never drag it thru the woods where I fish unless it was in its case.I would be so scared of breaking it.Some manufacturers do offer warantees,and even insurance for rods so I guess it all depends on how much your willing to spend.
The tippet to leader knot is very critical to catching fish.Im sure your 6 wt is capable of catching some nice fish. Keep trying. Good Luck! Tight lines!

[Shaq]

I believe trout hunter is right. Unfortunately, if you are looking for something to blame for losing that particuliar fish, I would suggest you look inward toward yourself. I tend to believe that most lost fish is due to human error and not equipment. There was a time when most equipment available was worse than the worst wally world POS available today so I wouldn't get a new outfit just because you lost one fish. In fact I guided Alaska and caught trout up to 28 inches on a cortland fairplay 6wt I bought at Wally World for $45. This is coming from a guy who has a few rods in the higher price ranges and some reels that have some swiss clock-like workmanship. Now, upgrades are a personal preferance. If you WANT a smoother drag, and WANT a rod that is faster/slower ect then by all means go for it. Any of the manufacturers will let you spend what you want on equip but as you are a beginner, I would stay with the decent entry level equipment. Rods in the $1-200 and a basice $50-150 reel would be a nice outfit for you until you can identify your casting stroke and know what you want to get out of an outfit. I have a top of the line rod and reel that I use on the bigger trout waters so I know I have the smoothness and power to cast 75 feet or more. Then I have a $60 2wt and a $20 reel which I LOVE for small creek fishing. I love these outfits the same. It's what I wanted. Then I have some spey rods ect for salmon steelhead when an ugly stick can catch the same fish so I guess you gotta ask yourself, what do you want? I think you NEED more practice on knots though

[beaverPond]

What knot do you guys use for your tippet to leader? I align the tippet and leader ends together. Then I take both and make a loop. I put both ends through this loop twice, wet the line, and pull knot tight slowly. Is this correct?

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to try fishing with plently of slack line to spare and adjust the drag manually. This was the first time I have tried landing a brown with the reel so it sounds like I better go back to my old ways.

Thanks,
beaverPond

[trouthunter]

Hi BP Heres a link to a good page on knots.Glad to hear you been catching some wild brookies! Hope this helps ya out. Tight lines!http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/knots.html

[wildbrookies]

Shaq summed it up in a nut-shell....it all comes down to what do you want....as a beginner I started out w/ an outfit that all matched...it was a G.Loomis Premier...that had the rod,reel,line even the leader and a fly...very important that everything matched in size/wt....then , I kept upgrading to higher and smoother models of reels and rods....I am still in the upgrade mode ,but have leveled out for now, due to funds...equipment can get very pricey , but you don`t have to go that route to fish effectively...like Shaq... I like a reel that can handle a bigger fish with a nice ,smooth reel that allows the fish a very steady resistance....

As for knots...BP, mentioned a knot called the Surgeon Knot...thats all I use for adding tippet material to my tapered leader...I usually don`t want to try tying the more involved Blood knot or Nail knot midstream ....especially when the fish are in the mood....

But, if you want to go down is size on the rod...you might want to go to a 4-4 wt...leaning more toward the 5 as an all-around choice and the 4 ,for probing smaller streams and beaver flows....same with the reel on the size...now, I think...for a good starter reel would be some of the STH reels, Orvis Battenkill ($69-100), and the best bang for the buck would be the G.Loomis Venture Fly Reels($100.00) it has a very smooth drag for a $100.00 reel!!!!...as for the rod...L.L. Bean has some nice rods for the price...the Quest($69.00) and the Streamlight($100.00) and you can`t beat their warranty...I broke an l.l.bean rod and they called me(personally) to tell me they were sending me the next better model up from the rod I broke...so, to keep the price down alittle...you can get a really decent outfit for around 150-200 for rod/reel with a good warranty(reputable company)...my personal thought on what you would like to start out with...would be the Orvis Battenkill reel (3/4 wt.69.00 or the 5/6 wt. for 79.) and the L.l. Bean Streamlight fly rod for $100.00 ......total price of $170-180 plus tax and shipping)

So, it all comes down to how much you want to spend...but ,remember to make sure it is balanced and...... for under $200.00 ....the above outfit would answer the call.... Good luck!

Wb

[Shaq]

That surgeon's knot is almost good but a very big culprit in alot of nice fish lost because it hinges, make the knot better by paralelling the 2 pieces with the tag ends opposite each other. one, the leader facing away from the fly line and the short end of the tippet facing the fly line. Now do the surgeons knot 2 times through, pulling the long end of the tippet and the short end of the leader through the loop. this will be a lot straighter connection and a lot more solid knot. Also, one more thing. The surgeans knot, the way you described is OK for 2 pieces of tippet that are very close to the same diameter. 4x to 5x. but if you have cut you leader several times to the point where you are connecting a piece of 3x or 2x to a 5 or 6x piece of tippet, it WILL slip. Especially if you are using a piece of mono to flourocarbon ect. so if you are cutting the leader portion to the point of the taper, then adding a bit of in-between tippet diameter wise would be a good thing. The thing about your reel, any click-drag should release with a minimul amount of pressure so one thing you can do is take a nail file, take the spool off the reel casing and file down the triangle clicker which causes the noise and resistance, this will lessen the drag resistance. adding more line than nessisary to fight fish is asking for all sorts of tangles and more lost fish.

Don't worry, you are on the right track anyways, keep at it, before long, it will be second nature

[beaverPond]

Thanks guys. This is great advice/info.

bp

[Connecticut Yankee]

Temple Forks Outfitter rods are about the best bang for the buck on the market today $99 to about $250 and the top of the line rods cast as well as any $500 rod out there. Dont worry to much about the reel$50 range will do anything you need for trout, don't need disk drag either for this kind of fishing. Spend %50-60 for the best line you can get though (and don't get DEET repellent on it), . A $200 rod and a premium rod will out cast a $700 rod and a bargain line every time.
5 weight rods are about the best all round trout rod out there. 4 weights are great most of the time, but a little light for bigger streamers and weighted nymphs especially if the wing kicks up. I have rods from 2 to 10 weight but my 8 1/2' 4 weight winston and my 9' 5 weight Loomis see the vast majority of my fishing.
John M. A Connecticut Yankee

[warden's worry]

While it is true that the TFO rods are quite affordable, do not overlook rods of similar pricepoints made in AMERICA. Scott Fly Rods of Montrose, Co makes an impressive pricepoint rod called the V2 starting at $165 for the 2 piece. I believe sage also has something in this range. All of these rods will get you into fish of course, but there is nothing like a fine tool..... be it an automobile or a flyrod, there is something to be said for high quality products. my favorite rod for fishing the ADKs is the new Scott G2 rod.
I have an 8'8"5wt that is sweet- it can handle anything and is not a super stiff/fast tippet buster. I pair it with a Tioga reel , by far the most durable inexpensive machined reel that exists. It can withstand all that you can hand it, and has a killer drag with no start-up problem, which probably contributed to your lost fish, along with good old pilot error. good luck and have fun

[aaronlawson]

Fiberglass and click and pawl!!

People are going to think I'm really crazy here but I have found a set-up that will truly disgust the river-runs-through-it crowd: I have discovered fiberglass!! I built two fiberglass rods this winter: a 6' 5-weight (Lee Wulff's rod of preference) and a 6'6" 4 weight. I really can't believe how much I love fishing with these rods. They offer several huge advantages over graphite: 1) short rods that can cast just the leader as if it were 40' of line, but also cast 40' of line great, 2) *extremely* delicate casting with super-soft presentations, 3) absolute pin-point accuracy, 4) very good tippet protection, 5) a super-durable rod that can be man-handled through the thickest alder creek or balsam swamp brush (which I have to do a lot). If you do backcountry flyfishing or fish small to medium sized streams fiberglass will be a revelation to you. The big problem, in my eyes, with graphite is that it really needs a lot of line out to cast well, and that short graphite rods are poor fishing tools. These facts have fueled recent trends in fly fishing: rods keep getting longer (because long graphite rods cast better than short ones), and line weight keep getting smaller (because lighter graphite rods load line easier, and many rod builders (JP Ross is one) suggest their customers try "overlining" their rods, so a short graphite rod will cast better). The rod blanks I used both cost under $10, and have caused me to abandon my expensive graphite rods so far this season -give fiberglass a try!

Likewise click and pawl reels: even a cheap click and pawl reel (like the LL Bean quest at $25) functions great -it is a simple drag that is as smooth as the best disk drag. The problem with disk drag reels is that they are very hard to do well -due to the physics involved disk drags give you a choppy, unresponsive drag if the plates are not built to very exact tolerances. Some companies are smart and realize that they are not doing their customers a favor by trying to sell them a cheap disk drag reel because it is trendy to do so -LLBean is one, but most have succumed to the industry notion that customers want a disk drag no matter what. This results in a lot of lost fish. There are some decent disk drag reels out there that won't break the bank: Orvis Barstock Battenkill is an awesome reel for $100, but for the kinds of trout fishing most people do the old Battenkill with a click and pawl drag was really superior.

My point is that spending more money on fancier gear is probably not going to help you out, but getting (or making) gear that suits the kind of fishing you do will make a huge difference, even if it is out of the ordinary. Fly rod and reel companies are out to make money, and they do it by constantly bringing in new technolgy and convincing people to buy it. I don't think a lot of the new and expensive stuff fits the kind of fishing most people in the Adirondacks do, but they buy it anyways. You don't have to.

Rereading this I sound like an old codger, I'm actually just 36... I can't imagine the kind of rants I'll produce when I'm 75!

-Aaron

[Shaq]

Actually, there is a resurgance of fiberglass rods these day. Diamondback is making a diamondglass rod series which are specialized small creek rods. Today's fiberglass is stronger and just as light as graphite and can recover quicker in your casting than your grandfather's fiberglass fishing rods. You, no doubt have discovered the newer tyes of fiberglass that is lighter and stiffer than the old stuff. Nice "Old man" rant though... Get those kids off my lawn!!!

[aaronlawson]

Yeah, but it's amazing to see the prices that people pay for old time fiberglass rods on e-bay -not to collect but to use. There's a entire cult surrounding it (that I'm not part of because I'm too cheap -at least about that kind of stuff). People are paying $75 for rods that probably cost $25 new, and would have been worth $4 ten years ago. Retro-chic!

-Aaron

[warden's worry]

glass is sweet.......

I have an old Philipson, and an Orvis Golden eagle in glass, they are awesome.
The new Diamondglass is cool as is th Scott F series. there is no better way to fish a small stream......
As far as the gear rant goes, spend your $ on your waders and your raincoat!
rods and reels dont keep you dry......