Winter hiking: Novice? Intermediate? Expert?

[Neil]

It looks like its open season on winter peakbagging and based on a quick perusal of the forums a lot of us are just learning the ropes. The first thing I noticed is how easy it is to underestimate the importance of time. Everything little thing seems to suck it up like a sponge and there aint much of it in January. Time too, to get to where you want to go. A lot of us had to scale back our original goals due to lack of time.
Skyclimber's advice post is excellent. Just in case anyone isn't aware of this, she has nearly 5 complete winter rounds under her belt. I for one will print that post and read it over and over again.
Anyway, here's what I think: Untill I've done 15 winter peaks I'm a begginner. By thirty I'll consider myself intermediate, when I've done the 46 I'll consider myself advanced. Expert status will very gradually be achieved over the following years.

[hillman1]

My days off just changed, but I will be up hiking either tuesday or wednesday. I have to find that post by skyclimber.

[Neil]

Doug,
I should be able to get to the HP's on every 2nd tues. to work towards my intermediate ''status''. The only hitch is I work 12 hours on mon & tues so would have to to the shorter hikes.

[Dick]

It looks like its open season on winter peakbagging and based on a quick perusal of the forums a lot of us are just learning the ropes. The first thing I noticed is how easy it is to underestimate the importance of time. Everything little thing seems to suck it up like a sponge and there aint much of it in January. Time too, to get to where you want to go. A lot of us had to scale back our original goals due to lack of time.
Skyclimber's advice post is excellent. Just in case anyone isn't aware of this, she has nearly 5 complete winter rounds under her belt. I for one will print that post and read it over and over again.
Anyway, here's what I think: Untill I've done 15 winter peaks I'm a begginner. By thirty I'll consider myself intermediate, when I've done the 46 I'll consider myself advanced. Expert status will very gradually be achieved over the following years.

I agree about the time issue - winter is tricky. I also agree that Skyclimber's post was excellent. In fact, it was one of the best I've seen in recent memory on this subject. Personally I wouldn't worry about beginner, intermediate, or advanced "status." Too many people could argue over what makes an "intermediate" or "advanced" or "expert" peakbagger (or any other type of hiker). Conditions in the adirondacks can change too radically for such designations to be meaningful, in my opinion. Speaking for myself, as soon as I consider myself an "expert" (I don't), mother nature will throw something at me to put me in my place.

Dick

[redhawk]

I always approach the woods each time as if I am a beginner. Helps me stay alive and live to this cantankorous old age!

Ten times more "experts" die in the woods then beginners.

[Skyclimber]

I always approach the woods each time as if I am a beginner. Helps me stay alive and live to this cantankorous old age!

Ten times more "experts" die in the woods then beginners.

"Although I'm not as Old as RedHawk is Yet!"


I agree with Redhawk,

32. Always hike with others who will look after you, as well as for themselves.

33. "We Gain More Experience, But We Never Lose Our Common Sense !!"

[Kevin]

32. Always hike with others who will look after you, as well as for themselves.

How true -- 99% of the people and situations I've experienced that required help of others were of no-fault of our own. But every once in a while someone wants to climb a boulder, hike without a headlamp in the dark (even though they have one) with no moonlight, go across a questionably frozen lake 'just because', etc... if you like taking unnecessary chances do it on your own time. There's enough that can go wrong we don't need to lower the odds of a successful and safe trip.

I'm probably still a beginner (6 major peaks but several weekend outtings and other non-peak oriented day trips in the winter cold). I feel I know what to do in just about any situation, and have even purchased all the gear necessary to ensure my personal safety. What I don't know how to handle my hiking partner(s) may, or we'll learn together. If I waited until I knew it all before heading out I would never gain the experience to learn 'it all' in the first place. Doesn't excuse poor planning, but it does explain poor decisions.

[Neil]

I always approach the woods each time as if I am a beginner.
Ten times more "experts" die in the woods then beginners.

Now there's an expert speaking.

[2005_46r]

I cannot express the concern that I have for backcountry winter safety after our run in with an individual on Cascade Friday afternoon.. This man from Philadelphia was hiking very late in the afternoon with the intent of overnighting at Porter when we ran into him. His pack was cocked 30 degrees off center of his back, and visibly struggling to break the summit by nightfall. We had to damn near physically turn him around to prevent him from continuing on. On our descent back toward the trailhead, he explained to us that last spring he was caught on Marcy in a white out after he left his pack behind to cover the last few hundred feet, resulting in a mountain search and rescue operation to save his life. We couldn't believe that this individual was going to attempt making Porter by nightfall. At 3:00 p.m. he would have ended stuck at the Cascade/Porter junction, anyone who was up that way last weekend knows that the Cascade peak was a mess, 70 MPH gusts and a arctic cold front less than 24 hours. How thankful I am that we ran into this individual, as a similar situation was near apparent with this gentleman.

[Skyclimber]

It's those type of hikers who have no business in the woods. They give winter hiking a "bad name."

Then they would had blamed the conditions of the Mountains, instead of the condition of the hiker!!

No Winter Summit is to be taken lightly, no matter how short the peak.

Glad you were there to prevent the castrophe that was waiting to happen.

[Neil]

Personally I wouldn't worry about beginner, intermediate, or advanced "status." Too many people could argue over what makes an "intermediate" or "advanced" or "expert" peakbagger (or any other type of hiker).

Absolutely. The idea I was trying to develop was that it will take a lot of winter hikes and peaks climbed before I'll be beyond the steepest part of the never ending learning curve. In my books, anyone who has done a hundred or two hundred summits between the dates of Dec. 21 and Mar. 21 is an expert winter peakbagger. Not only have they done a lot of mountains in all kinds of conditions but they probably get out often which keeps them sharp. Anyone, such as myself, who has only done three, well...lots of learning ahead.

[Wldrns]

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[redhawk]

Experience sometimes gives a sense of security that causes people to figure that they can handle anything in the outdoors. Often it makes them continue, sure that they will be able to find the trail, rather then backtrack or stop and wait for help. Thus the reason for the 9 to 1 mortality rate of experienced hikers over neophytes.

What I have found from "real life" experience, from my times as a guide out West and with SAR is that experienced people feel they have an edge (which of course they do) and sometimes let that experience fool them into thinking they will be able to cut corners (Just because I CAN survive in the woods with no gear doesn't mean I hike with no gear, just because I know the area like the back ofmy hand doesn't mean I don't carry a compas, just because I am proficient in reading a compass and map doesn't mean I don't carry a GPS,, just because I can hike all night doesn't mean I do, etc.).

I treat every trip into the woods as if it could kill me, simply because it could...I carry too much gear as opposed to too little, I cary backups for my backups....compasses, batteries, water filter, etc.

Figure if I increase all the odds, I'll live to be 108 and get shot by a jealous husband!!

[Wldrns]

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[redhawk]

I've hiked at night, have eyes like a cat and can track just about anything that walks and crawls on a moonless night. Not just can, HAVE.

Knowing that I can do that and doing it when it is not necessary or in a place where it is dangeous is another matter.


As far as cointinginsies... I spent six tours in nam, six months "in Country' and six months "chilling" because what are team did was so intense. I spent more time in the jungle, on hostile ground then I did safe. I'm not tsalking about training, I'm talking about being in harms way real time with the toughest best fighting unit in the world! Often under equipped and with no support.

What is the issue here? Basically, if you are disagreeing, you are saying is that it's unnecessary to take every step Possible (note the "possible" in BOLD) to ensure your safety.

By assuring that you do everything you CAN, you decrease the odds of being caught with your pants down..

I BUSHWHACKED 2700 miles, from Whitewood, SD to California. And I mean Bushwhacked 60% of the time and following trails the e=rest of the time. I'm not talking about following the AT, PCT or The Continental Divide Trail. I had a minimum of equipment, living mostly off the land. I had no maps except for a couple of areas because I could not afford that many quads. I had a bag and a tarp, water filter, GPS Batteries, batteries, and more batteries and two compasses. first aid kit, hatchet, knife, matches, flint and steel, two changes of clothes, a lantern, wire and cord and fishline and hooks. I hiked alone and there was no itinery. I made it with flying colors and it was the greatest outdoor experience of my life. Would I reccommend that you do it? NO! Was I acting smart when I did it? NO! Could I have died out there? Very easily, but at the time I didn't care. I had just survived cancer and had to do a walkabout. it was more important to me then the risk.

The fact that I did it, does not mean that it was a smart thing to do, or that i would do it again, not with the minimal gear that i carried.

And if I am not mistaken, the person in the story was not that inexperienced!