Permanent Bear Canisters

[rdl]

I was camping at Flowed Lands this week, was down at the water's edge filtering water about 9:30 PM Sunday night when a guy walked up to me and asked: "Do you know where the permanent bear canisters are ?"

[sky]

"no, but the bears know where to find their midnight snack......"

[Simon1]

ta da!

Does it seem like a good idea to anyone else? Permanent bear canisters. Then we wouldn't have to carry in the heavy canisters. More room in the pack you know? Yes it is something more the DEC would have to do, but all of us lazy hikers etc. wouldn't have to haul those mandatory canisters around. The only place I've ever had a problem with bears getting my food was at Flowed Lands/High Peaks. Never had a problem anywhere else in the park ever.

[Judgeh]

I saw my first permanent setup at Sages Ravine, a popular campsite on the A.T. at the Mass/Ct border. One problem I saw was a matter of enforcement...a resident trailrunner who supervises at Sages hung a bag very near his tent! (He also didn't bother to stop a late night illegal campfire, but that's another issue)

It was a heavy steel welded box and other than being a little small for the size of the campsite, it was unobtrusive and appeared to be bearproof.

[Bill I.]

This summer, I backpacked in a wilderness national park up in Ontario where they used bear lockers at all the backcountry sites. As far as I could tell, this place did not have a problem with habituated black bears--but they were trying to keep it that way, by proactively providing the lockers. They were certainly handy, without a doubt.

In the Adirondack High Peaks, there would be some hoops to jump through to get lockers in place in the backcountry, such as an amendment to the State Land Master Plan (which needs to be updated anyway). The issue with bears is just one symptom of a much larger and more complex issue, though, and providing lockers would by itself cure only that one symptom.

The High Peaks Wilderness shares many of the same problems as wilderness areas and national parks across the country, and there are several strategies for dealing with these issues. I regard DEC's current strategy as an experiment, and by no means a permanent solution. If and when the time comes to reevaluate that strategy, bear lockers are certainly an option that should be considered.

RDL's story was very amusing. I will be backpacking in the HPWA this weekend, and I am looking forward to a good show.

[lumberzac]

My guess is the next step for DEC in that area, and it won’t be a popular step, is to close the area off to overnight camping for a set number of years and then reopen and limit the number of people that can use the area at any given time. As wildriver stated, the bear issue is just a symptom of a larger problem. So far we have only seen regulations that deal with the symptoms and not the real problem, which is there are too many people using such a small area. Until this problem is addressed, I fear we will just see more and more symptoms until the area has downgraded to something that is barely a shadow of what it once was.

[daxs]

Does the DEC consider bear lockers non conforming structures?

[Jake]

Bear proof lockers common practice out west and in Canada. If lean-tos and privies can be built and conform, why not bear proof food lockers?

[Little Rickie]

I was camping at Flowed Lands this week, was down at the water's edge filtering water about 9:30 PM Sunday night when a guy walked up to me and asked: "Do you know where the permanent bear canisters are ?"

When I was there in June the ranger said he had put a bear proof "something" up on the hill behind the lean-tos for people to use. We didn't need one so I never checked it out so I don't know if it was a locker or canaster.

[Starshadow]

My guess is the next step for DEC in that area, and it won’t be a popular step, is to close the area off to overnight camping for a set number of years and then reopen and limit the number of people that can use the area at any given time. As wildriver stated, the bear issue is just a symptom of a larger problem. So far we have only seen regulations that deal with the symptoms and not the real problem, which is there are too many people using such a small area. Until this problem is addressed, I fear we will just see more and more symptoms until the area has downgraded to something that is barely a shadow of what it once was.

This has been my understanding also. The DEC is not looking to make it more convenient to visit what is considered heavily used areas by adding bear lockers.

[Bill I.]

Does the DEC consider bear lockers non conforming structures?

Yes, they are considered non-conforming under current policy. However, if bear lockers were determined to be absolutely necessary, the policy could be amended. It would just be an extra step in a controversial process. Don't expect them anytime soon.

[Kevin]

Bear proof lockers common practice out west and in Canada. If lean-tos and privies can be built and conform, why not bear proof food lockers?

Just a regulation thing that, as has already been said, can be changed. Unfortunately change in DEC minutes generally takes years to accomplish, especially where it involves revising a UMP.

[stripperguy]

Does anyone remember the severe bear (really sloppy camper) problem at Forked Lake Campground? The campground put in food lockers and no more problems. While these food lockers do not treat the source of the problem, the end result is the same, no more backcountry food fests. BTW, I have avoided camping in the High Peaks for 30 years, just because of the crowds.

[Simon1]

this might seem crazy

Since the lean-to's are allowed to be there, why not build the lockers into the lean-to's? Like in the floor? That wouldn't take up the valuable space inside and would avoid the problem of erecting another structure on state land. Whatever. The real solution is as was stated earlier, this would of course just treat the symptom. And that treatment would be unfortunate.

[chairrock]

I've had bears break into camp to eat pasta and dry beans,dog food,sugar,well you get the picture... now I leave a 5 gallon bucket, filled with dog food ,with a not too tight lid in the outhouse,I've had no problem with bears going near the outhouse.......maybe it is because my wife uses it for #1? (thank goodness she doesnt follow these posts!)
Anyone ever use the priveys at LTs for food storage?