Questions on hiking Allen,

[Rookie]

I want to do part of the trip to Allen on the day I drive up from South of Buffalo. After doing Allen the following morning, I want to back-track and then head North towards Flowed Lands for some more camping and peaks.

How long would it take to get from the parking area to Skylight Brook ?
(I hear you can camp near there )

Is it easy enough to find camping areas after crossing Skylight Brook ?

Is it true you can’t camp or even drop a pack until you cross Skylight Brook?

Is the path to Allen (at least as far as Skylight Brook) plain enough to see with a headlamp ?

I sure wish there was a route from Allen to Redfield since I want to do Redfield in the same trip. I wonder if anyone ever tried following Skylight Brook upstream and then following the branch towards Redfield.

[Neil]

I would think it would be fairly easy to hike with a headlamp up until the point where the yellow margarine lids stop (at state land). Note that the lids (if they are still there) are non-reflective and you should have a powerful headlamp beam. After that, especially if there are a lot of leaves down, it would be quite a challenge to stay on the path. If you have a logfile you trust loaded into a gps that would help. Also, there may a few turns to are tricky to find in the dark.

Allen to Redfield whack? I've heard from someone who did it that it is very slow. And that was with a daypack.

[Rookie]

Thanks Neil and Adam !
Any other comments are welcome.

[adk joe]

I would have to agree with Neil, I did Allen two weekends ago and you wont have a problem until the yellow tops stop, even in the daylight I had to wander a bit to keep on the trail. Camping at skylight brook was not what I expected seeing how allen is a popular overnight, very small site with a small fire pit right on the trail, However I didn't really go scouting around so there could be a much better location, I don't really pay much attention to camp sites anymore since I got a hammock (I spoiled myslef ). You might have some trouble in the dark though.

I didn't keep track of time since I didn't have a watch but I can tell you that it's a fairly easy walk until you get to skylight brook, from there you will hike straight towards the sky, so it's a good place to leave your pack, maybe by the big tree that fell over the brook. If it were me I would keep my pack for when you are comming off allen and down the slide to protect your butt and back if you fall because I don't know if you have heard anything about the Red moss that grows on the slide but man is that stuff slippery and brutal. I saw a young guy fall on the way down and he cut is whole arm open from his elbow to his wrist, I had to help him get down to skylight brook so he could patch himself up, I think he will live .

I don't know about dropping your pack before skylight brook, I have never heard anything like that but if you really needed to drop it just hide it, no one will know I can't see that hurting anything, but thats just me

Another tip...Instead of trying to climb straight up the slabs of the slide like I saw a lot of people trying look for the paths that run along side the slide there much safer, sometimes you gotto scale the rocks but the majority of the time you can take the forest route up the side and it will save you some energy and blood.
good luck!!

[rdl]

If you're going to continue on to Flowed Lands, would that be via Hanging Spear Falls or back to the road and then in via Calamity Brook ?

If via Hanging Spear Falls... the approach to Allen splits, with the Allen approach heading right and the trail to Hanging Spear Falls continuing straight(or slightly left). At this junction, you could continue towards HSP until you reach state land and then camp there. Backtrack with a daypack and do Allen then return to your camp and continue on to Flowed Lands. There is a very large sign where this junction is, should not be difficult to see in the dark.

[alombard]

Every time I go uo Allen, I look over at the slide on the back side of Redfield. Anyone ever climb that slide? Looks like it could be a good route up. Probably tough finding the base of the slide though.

[1ADAM12]

Every time I go uo Allen, I look over at the slide on the back side of Redfield. Anyone ever climb that slide? Looks like it could be a good route up. Probably tough finding the base of the slide though.

I remember reading a report on VFTT a few years ago of 2 guys climbing that slide. So it has been done

[Boreal Chickadee]

After you leave the private land it's going to be tough going that last half hour to Skylight brook at night with the leaves that are down. I was in as far as Mt Adams Sunday afternoon and they're already starting to fall in that area. It's the nighttime factor that will make it a bit difficult and I hike at night frequently.

The campsites are easy to see. You can't miss them. Don't sleep late, a morning hiker might trip over you. Okay, so they're not in the trail, but right next to it.

I'm trying to remember out time to skylight brook, but I'm sure both times it was about 3 hours give or take a bit. After Skylight Brook it's not too much farther to Allen brook and the campsite there. Then it's up , up , up.

[Rookie]

Thanks everyone. I know how to plan this now.

rdl- I want to go in past Hanging Spear Falls.

Adam and Alex--there are some trip reports around about "whacking" to Redfield or Skylight from Allen but I guess I won't try that solo and "time-wise" there's little to gain.

This all makes me wonder though.....when the day comes where someone says "OK, we are now authorized to make a trail from "point A" to "point B"
what is the next move ?
Does it ever happen like that ? especially where there is no trail whatsoever ?
Or, is there always a trail of some sort, before it is allowed to become official.

Do you send out a mass notice to get as many people as possible to show up on a particular day with their shovels and saws and just blast away (under guidance and navigators) ?

[Bill I.]

This all makes me wonder though.....when the day comes where someone says "OK, we are now authorized to make a trail from "point A" to "point B" what is the next move ? Does it ever happen like that ? especially where there is no trail whatsoever ? Or, is there always a trail of some sort, before it is allowed to become official.

Do you send out a mass notice to get as many people as possible to show up on a particular day with their shovels and saws and just blast away (under guidance and navigators) ?

I presume you're asking about the possibility of a future trail from Allen to Redfield...

It would certainly be far more complicated than people showing up with tools. Proposals for new trails anywhere in the Adirondacks have to made through the unit management plan (UMP) process, through which DEC makes major management decisions for all public lands in the state. The public is invited to submit comments and/or attend public scoping meetings. For the High Peaks, there is also an advisory committee comprised of DEC staff, representatives of groups with a specific interest in the region (ADK, the 46r club, etc.) as well as some concerned citizens. Ideas are proposed, discussed, debated, shot down, rehashed, and maybe even supported. The DEC takes all this input, weighs it against their own objectives for the management of that particular area, and then issues a draft UMP. This is circulated to the public, and additional comments are accepted. Amendments are made if necessary, and then the draft is submitted to the state land committee of the Adirondack Park Agency. APA staff review the proposed UMP to ensure it conforms with the Adirondack Park State Land Master Plan (APSLMP), and the committee can either vote to accept the UMP with changes or reject it. If it's passed, the DEC commissioner then puts his final stamp of approval on it.

If this sounds like an overly complicated and political process, well okay it is, but it's intended to replace the old "knee-jerk" management policy of decades past in which the old Conservation Department merely responded to public pressure to develop facilities on state land. This is the lovely system that gave us umpteen lean-tos at Marcy Dam and at places above 4000 feet. The DEC is now required to demonstrate that any new facilities--including trails, lean-tos, bridges, etc.--are in keeping with the wilderness environment or are needed to protect the resource.

However, there is currently high resistance to the idea of additional trails in the High Peaks. Allen and Redfield were originally "trailless" peaks intended to be bushwhack destinations, and the current "designated herd paths" are intended to eliminate the confusing network of paths that used to crisscross many summits. Unwanted paths are being brushed in and the best path is being maintained, in order to preserve the natural appearance of the mountain.

Given all of this, I would say the likelihood of a new trail between Allen and Redfield is extremely low. On the other hand, there used to be a state trail along Upper Twin Brook leading to Uphill Brook, between Cliff and Redfield. Maintenance was discontinued some years ago, and Hurricane Floyd effectively shut it down. But to my knowledge it was never officially abandoned. The revival of this route, in my opinion, has some merit because it would be a useful bypass of Flowed Lands.

[Rookie]

Thank you very much for the education !

I see what you mean about that trail along Upper Twin Brook being useful to
lessen the traffic through Flowed Lands. It sure would be nice to have a trail there.

[colden46]

On the other hand, there used to be a state trail along Upper Twin Brook leading to Uphill Brook, between Cliff and Redfield. Maintenance was discontinued some years ago, and Hurricane Floyd effectively shut it down. But to my knowledge it was never officially abandoned. The revival of this route, in my opinion, has some merit because it would be a useful bypass of Flowed Lands.

That trail crosses private land and is heavily posted at its south end. Whether that will change in the future with TNC's purchase of Finch-Pruyn lands is anyone's guess. Of course if it was never officially abandoned the state still may have an easement and the posting would be illegal, but that aside, the clubs that lease the land in there are active so you'd very likely get hassled (and possibly arrested). I certainly wouldn't go in there without making absolutely sure that it's still rightfully open to the public contrary to all the posted signs.

[Bill I.]

That trail crosses private land and is heavily posted at its south end. Whether that will change in the future with TNC's purchase of Finch-Pruyn lands is anyone's guess. Of course if it was never officially abandoned the state still may have an easement and the posting would be illegal, but that aside, the clubs that lease the land in there are active so you'd very likely get hassled (and possibly arrested). I certainly wouldn't go in there without making absolutely sure that it's still rightfully open to the public contrary to all the posted signs.

I don't have the material in front of me, but I seem to recall that the state owns either an easement or an outright ROW for that trail--identical to the easement or ROW that makes the trail to Hanging Spear Falls open to the public. I know that Barbara M. was especially upset that the 1999 UMP didn't propose to reopen the Upper Twin Brook trail; she said it was once one of the most scenic trails in the High Peaks. But the last I heard--and I've never been there myself--the trail was impassable anyway due to blowdown from Floyd. If so, it's a moot point. The only part currently being used is the uppermost section near Uphill Brook, and even that part is being rerouted.