tent and lean-tos

[hickoryskier]

Tell that to the two rangers whom i know personally have issued citations for pitching a tent in a lean to. One down here in the Silver Lake Wilderness, another up on the raquette.

Whatever...I wouldn't turn in anyone that did that.

[BrawnyMan]

Redhawk’s astute analysis has made me think, so I did some research....

Merrium-Webster defines a tent as...

“1 : a collapsible shelter of fabric (as nylon or canvas) stretched and sustained by poles and used for camping outdoors or as a temporary building”

So Neil, it looks like you’re safe with that net, given the fact that it does not use poles, only rope.

Hickory, might I suggest suspending your solo tent with ropes also? The ropes will surely be in everyone’s way, but at least you're not gonna get cited by Red's buddies......

Brawny Man out

[redhawk]

Redhawk’s astute analysis has made me think, so I did some research....

Merrium-Webster defines a tent as...

“1 : a collapsible shelter of fabric (as nylon or canvas) stretched and sustained by poles and used for camping outdoors or as a temporary building”

So Neil, it looks like you’re safe with that net, given the fact that it does not use poles, only rope.

Hickory, might I suggest suspending your solo tent with ropes also? The ropes will surely be in everyone’s way, but at least you're not gonna get cited by Red's buddies......

Brawny Man out

Check with the DEC, this is the information you will get.... Note the section on lean-to's at the bottom, specificially what I have bolded and highlighted in red. And what is and isn't a tent is defined by the DEC for the purpose of regulations. Mirriam-Webster doesn't write regulations nor define them for NY State.

The rangers aren't my "buddies" nor are they my enemies. My sole intent in posting is to DISCOURAGE ANYONE FROM KNOWINGLY OR UNKNOWINGLY COMMITTING AN ILLEGAL ACT AND BEING FINED. So I guess you could consider me your buddy. I don't make the rules and i don't enforce them, but I make it my business to be aware of what they are.

"Forest Preserve regulations are intended to preserve the environment and protect the safety of the user. Failure to comply may result in a ticketed violation punishable by fine. For more information and details contact your nearest DEC office and obtain the following booklets:
"Use of New York State’s Public Forest Lands" and "Tips for Using State Lands."

150 Foot Rule.
Camping within 150 feet of any road, trail, spring, stream or body of water except at camping areas designated by DEC is prohibited. Wash yourself and your dishes at least 150 feet from water sources. Bury human wastes under four inches of soil and leaf litter at least 150 feet from the trail or any water source.

Designated Campsites.
DEC designates backcountry campsites to keep use to previously disturbed areas, to mark locations where camping is acceptable, and to limit adverse impacts to resources and other campers. Designated sites are identified by DEC sign or disk. Outside of designated camping areas, backpackers may choose their own campsites provided they comply with the 150 foot rule noted above.

Camping Permits.
A permit is required if camping on state land in one location exceeding three consecutive nights or in a group of 10 or more (regardless of length of stay). The number of people per campsite may be limited in certain areas to reduce environmental and social impacts. (On canoe routes camping permits will not be issued to groups that exceed 12 persons. Groups from the same organization must camp at least .25 mile apart.) Free permits may be obtained from DEC forest rangers. However, no permit will be issued to anyone under the age of 18.

Special regulations apply for the Eastern High Peaks:
No camping permits are issued; group sizes for camping are limited to 8; day hiking group size limit is 15. Self-issued Visitor Use Permits (available at trail heads) are required to be carried for the duration of the stay. No campfires are allowed and all pets must be leashed.

Lean-tos.
Do not count on lean-to availability. Occasionally lean-tos will be relocated or removed
entirely. Often they are already occupied. A lean-to must be shared with anyone who wishes to use it, up to capacity. You may not occupy a lean-to for more than three consecutive nights unless you have a camping permit. Tents may not be set up inside lean-tos. No nails or other fasteners may be used to secure tarps or ropes to the lean-to."

[Neil]

Gentle reminder to all:

This is a good thread, let's keep it friendly.

[Rik]

I think it is a pretty dumb rule. If there is room then I don't see the harm. If it is in the way of other people using the lean-to then it should come down. No need for a rule just common sense.

[RC]

I think it is a pretty dumb rule. If there is room then I don't see the harm. If it is in the way of other people using the lean-to then it should come down. No need for a rule just common sense.

Common sense only works for people that have some. I've seen 1 person try to claim a lean to for themselves. Common sense should have told them that didn't even make any sense. Without the rules preventing it some people would set up a tent in the middle of a lean to and claim the whole thing.



RC

[redhawk]

I think it is a pretty dumb rule. If there is room then I don't see the harm. If it is in the way of other people using the lean-to then it should come down. No need for a rule just common sense.

Example. Someone is at a lean to. by 8 pm, there is no one else there, they decide to set up a tent inside. At midnight a party of four that has been hiking all days comes into the lean-to. the person in the tent is asleep. The party has to wake up the person(s) who then has to take down the tent.

If everyone ha a tent, why have lean tos? Or where the lean tos constructed for prople who did not have or did not want to carry tents?

What I personally don't understand is why anyone carrying a tent would want to use the tent in a lean to.

As for common sense, I often find a lack of that as well as a lack of consideration, so you can't depend on it.

i would also guess that the rule had to be written because a lot of people weren't using common sense or being considerate.

Just like with the bear canisters. It's now a rule because many people did not exercise common sense by using bear bags or keeping food away from camping areas.

[BrawnyMan]

I've seen 1 person try to claim a lean to for themselves...Without the rules preventing it some people would set up a tent in the middle of a lean to and claim the whole thing.

Is the problem here the tent or the individual? The rule could perhaps be better worded.

[Rik]

Common sense only works for people that have some. I've seen 1 person try to claim a lean to for themselves. Common sense should have told them that didn't even make any sense. Without the rules preventing it some people would set up a tent in the middle of a lean to and claim the whole thing.



RC

Agreed. But wouldn't that just fall under the rules regarding lean-to capacity and access to available space? I guess my actual question is: If no one else is using it, or wants to use it, then what harm is the tent?

[RC]

Be it traps, guns or tents in lean tos. The problem is always with the individual.


RC

[Rik]

Example. Someone is at a lean to. by 8 pm, there is no one else there, they decide to set up a tent inside. At midnight a party of four that has been hiking all days comes into the lean-to. the person in the tent is asleep. The party has to wake up the person(s) who then has to take down the tent.

If someone comes into camp the party in the tent is going to wake up. Their tough luck if they have to take down the tent. 5 minutes? Maybe the arriving party is too big for the remaining capacity. Tent already set up?

What I personally don't understand is why anyone carrying a tent would want to use the tent in a lean to.

It could be warmer or more sheltered. Bug net with no fly is a cooler tent but still rain protected. Lean -to floor is nice flat tent platform. Lean-to floor makes nice porch outside tent.

[RC]

Agreed. But wouldn't that just fall under the rules regarding lean-to capacity and access to available space? I guess my actual question is: If no one else is using it, or wants to use it, then what harm is the tent?

I've gone to sleep alone in a lean to and had it be full by morning. If I had hung my hammock across the lean to since I was the only one using it and was the only one that wanted to use it as far as I knew when I went to bed it would have been a big hassle. If I was someone that felt first come first serve for a lean to it could have been much more then a hassle.



RC

[Rock]

How about on top of the leanto?

[Rik]

I've gone to sleep alone in a lean to and had it be full by morning. If I had hung my hammock across the lean to since I was the only one using it and was the only one that wanted to use it as far as I knew when I went to bed it would have been a big hassle. If I was someone that felt first come first serve for a lean to it could have been much more then a hassle.



RC

Right, so you choose less hassle. I would too. But if you were someone that felt first come first serve for a lean to it probably would have been a hassle without the hammock. Like you said earlier the problem is with the individual, not the tent/hammock. No amount of rules is going to fix that.

[RC]

How about on top of the leanto?

I have no problem if you want to set up your tent on top of the lean to...unless you have a weak bladder that is


RC