Leading a group hike.

[Neil]

The other day my wife who is a teacher informed me that she named me as leader and organizer of an outing to the dacks of a group of about 15 12 year olds. There will be 5 adults including me and my wife. I've never done anything remotely like this before but my brain went quickly into gear and I thought of this:
Bring radios. (Thanks Redhawk)
Make a list of stuff to bring for each participant to take home to their parents including food and water.
Choose a mountain like Hurricane or Cascade.
Personally check each participant's pack contents.

I'd like to go at the front and have fun with the speedy guys and maintain radio contact with the sweep.

Any advice?

[Kevin]

Choose a mountain like Hurricane or Cascade.
Personally check each participant's pack contents.

Mt Jo or something smaller than hurricane or cascade. Not everyone is "fit" enough to climb more than 1200 feet.

Don't check their pack contents. At 12 years old you should be able to tie your own shoes and pack your own gear with parental guidance. If YOU are "responsible" (ie- liable) for the children then bail NOW!!! These are NOT your kids, and if Canada is anything like America (and I know it's more like it than you Canadians want to admit ) you could end up losing your car, house, and a percentage of your income for the remainder of your life should (god forbid) anything horrible happen. If the school accepts responsibility then ignore this last paragraph and enjoy the trip!

[percious]

I agree with Kevin that you should not check their packs. I also agree that you should not do Hurricane or Cascade, both are seriously demanding. I suggest Mt. Pharoah. The climb is about 800 ft. There is ample parking for a bus or whatnot, and the view is spectacular. You will get a peak when I get my film developed.

-percious

[Neil]

I took my 10 year old son (no, not Dominic, the one who hates hiking) up Hurricane no sweat a few years ago.
I think I'll get the phys ed prof to check the pack contents as part of an exercise.
I'm not worried about losing my house, car and future income. For God's sake, what the HELL is going on down there anyway?

[Dick]

Neil,

Unless you are familiar with the hiking abilities of the kids, I would err on the conservative side of difficulty when choosing your peak. Mt. Jo is good. Perhaps Hopkins? Or Rooster Comb?

Speaking from experience, I WOULD check their pack contents on the day OF the trip. Not only to be sure they all have necessary items, but that "luxuries" are kept to a minimum. You'd be surprised what some 11 or 12-year-olds will try to sneak into their packs! Is there a way you could get that pack list to the parents directly, rather than assuming it will make it home through the kids? Care to post your pack list?

Personally, I would adopt a "no one hikes alone" rule and stick to it, leaving radios in the pack for emergencies.

Have planned breaks along the way.

I would check with the school to see what the liability regs are.

[JimB]

Neil, you asked for advice. As the group leader you are responsible for all of the people in the group. This includes making sure everyone has a good time and wants to return to the mountains. Going to the" front and having fun with the speedy guys" will be fun for a few what what about the majority who are struggling along wishing they were back in the car? Make sure you spend some time with all of the hikers or only a few will have fun. That doesn't mean you shouldn't show the 'fast guys' how much faster than them you are, but you should be the one controlling the pace not 'setting the pace'. If you do go up with a faster group, make sure you stop frequently so everyone can catch up. That way everyone will feel like they are a part of the hike, not a burden to the fast few. Also I agree that you shouldn't go through everyone's pack. Give them a list (a short one) and hope for the best. As the group leader you should carry whatever extras that the group might need. The extra weight will help to even it out between you and those athletic 12 year olds

[Mavs00]

My daughter was 6 when she climbed Hurricane and Cascade, my son was 8. Truth is, while many school aged kids ARE UNFIT (from past standards), most should be able to make either of those summits, so long as you don't drive them like a drill sargent (NEIL, YOU ARE LISTENING, RIGHT............) . The reward for those two peaks FAR outweighs the rewards for Mt. Jo. and will give them some real pride for "Climbing a mountain".

By all means, give them a checklist of stuff to bring and them make sure it's in their pack. I think that is important just to insure that they are taking the right stuff, and not carrying stupid stuff, like a gameboy or something. You don't have to manually "search" every pack, just do a group pack or something.

Be reasonable with the destination and speed, but challenge them (or they won't take it serious). We took a group of Nick's Boy Scout friends (including a couple unfit ones) up Wright peak. No problem, some found it real hard, other opted for the trip over to Algonquin. ALL FELT GOOD ABOUT CLIMBING A PEAK. It was a great experience.

Just make sure to have a back-up leader if 1-2 need to bail out.

[Rik]

I agree with most of what Mavs said. Doing the group pack make sense to me. Do the gear list then when everyone is getting ready break out everything in your pack and encourage everyone to do the same. Make it seem like you do it for every hike. I think most kids, at a moderate pace, would do fine with the hikes you have in mind. Let me know if you need a 'volunteer'. Mixing in adults is easier than keeping a group that size together. Better to have smaller groups that find each other by pace. The adults can adjust their pace to fit the groups.

[redhawk]

Neil. Three things for sure if you are taking a group of kids hiking in the Dacks, most of it's been said but I'm just going to affirm.

DO NOT DO A STEEP HIKE. PERIOD, NO BUTS!!
There should not be a faster group and a slower group, there should be only one group, going only as fast as the slowest hiker
Make a list of what they need and then check only that they have enough water and that all have a whistle with them, A Loud whistle, which is to be used only if contact is lost with the group. (As effective as radios under these circumstances).

I guarantee that there will be one or two at least that will be out of shape and before long some that are suddenly not happy with the activity.

Keep it simple the first time out. Not only are they learning, so are you as the leader of a pack of almost teens. It's TOTALLY different from what you're doing when you hike with fellow peak baggers.

Mount Jo is probably your best bet.

I know it's tough, but use some common sense for this one bro.

[hillman1]

I think they're ready for Blake, Couchy, Or Seward.

[percious]

I am surprised no one mentioned Blue Mountain. I think it has a fire tower, and it has a museum which would probably love a bunch of children. Who knows, you may even be able to learn them youngin's something...

-percious

[Wildernessphoto]

The other day my wife who is a teacher informed me that she named me as leader and organizer of an outing to the dacks of a group of about 15 12 year olds. There will be 5 adults including me and my wife. I've never done anything remotely like this before but my brain went quickly into gear and I thought of this:
Bring radios. (Thanks Redhawk)
Make a list of stuff to bring for each participant to take home to their parents including food and water.
Choose a mountain like Hurricane or Cascade.
Personally check each participant's pack contents.

I'd like to go at the front and have fun with the speedy guys and maintain radio contact with the sweep.

Any advice?

My first Thought came from Monty Python and the holy grail...RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!

When are you doing this, Neil?
Is this a winter hike?
Are the adults hikers?
You can only hike as fast as your slowest hiker, and if any of them are unfit, can they do the distance and elevation?
is time a factor?
Does it have to be a peak?
there are some great hikes in "Adirondack Great Walks & Day Hikes" put out by NYS Tourism Councel http://adk.com

State Hiking Map

Check that out...
-Gary-

[capper]

whatever happens neil, ,
I think you should definately stay with the pack. As stated before, , if you leave the straglers behind in a "slow group", the overall experience for them would be bad. Frequent stops to make sure everyone is doing ok and keeping hidrated, and share some of your wilderness expertice on the way. You know, give some good pointers or "as a matter of fact's". Then they walk away from an experience that they enjoy, and is educational as well. Just my opinion though.

[Dick]

Neil, what time of year are you going?

I know some people have varying opinions about some of the regulations, but it's worth stating that "Day groups are limited to fifteen people in both the Eastern and Western zones of the High Peaks Wilderness and in the Dix Mountain and Giant Mountain Wilderness areas. Affiliated groups whose total size exceeds group limits must maintain a separation distance of at least 1.0 mile (1.6 kilometers) throughout the duration of their visit to comply with the above regulations."

Percious's idea Blue Mt. is excellent one.

[Neil]

Affiliated groups whose total size exceeds group limits must maintain a separation distance of at least 1.0 mile (1.6 kilometers) throughout the duration of their visit to comply with the above regulations."

Now I have the perfect excuse to go ahead wih the speedsters leaving the slowpokes behind.

Thank you all for your advice. Points were brought up that I hadn't considered. I and especially the kids shall surely benefit from the advice when the time comes. (June, I believe).