Saranac Lake Board stops Walmart

[Keithk]

The Adirondack Daily Enterprise: "Walmart: Board's Decision Prohibits SL Location"

"SARANAC LAKE — Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. released a statement Tuesday in regard to the village board’s decision Monday night not to continue with the rezoning of the sand pit. According to the statement, the decision “prohibits Wal-Mart from locating in Saranac Lake.” ........

[Bartleby]

Right On Mayor Michael!

A real vote for the Adirondacks.

[pico23]

All I can say is thank you.

Walmart is an extremely greedy corporation that comes in and sucks the life out of any area it enters. It leaves the place in shambles and then bails.

The working benefits are extremely poor. The waste from those supercenters is excessive and the in the end most areas are far better off without a Walmart. Walmart pays much less then the Fortune 500 company average for health care YET it NETS 10billion dollars in profits per year for the last few years. In case you don't know where that ranks. In 2004 it was SECOND to Exxon Mobil in NET profits. So Walmart made more than all but one US company. That's pretty insane considering there benefits rank near the bottom.


As far as food, the produce is terrible and the meats are all pre-cut and trucked in. You might ask why they precut them and don't have on staff butchers? Simple, the butchers in texas tried to unionize and a week later walmart eliminated the butcher department. anyway, the meat looks unfit for your dog.

Walmart isn't anti union, they are pro employee. Except when a union takes root. Such as in Quebec where they closed the Walmart where (reason was it was an unprofitable store)

When a supercenter is being built and setup Walmart hires 400 people. They pay them above normal wages for the area (slightly above). This last 4 months. Then after the grand oppenning usually 20% quit because they are forced out (ie management schedules them for shifts they listed as unavailable or in cases of public transit being used after the transit system stops running), next they just fire people for minor infractions, then they run the skeleton crew of people and the lines are enormous. Finally they have a few other tactics, if you escape the runout then since the store usually doesn't make a profit the first or second years they start reassigning people who are making too much (that is have gotten a raise and are now eligible for health benefits). They reassign you to areas with lower pay grades. You accept or quit. if you don't quit you start getting scheduled for less hours. If you're full time you will lose your benefits. In the end managment still gets the yearly bonus, enough to buy a $30-70K car outright and very few employees last long enough to collect such bonus (usually about 1 weeks salary for hourly workers), or benefits or vacation time.

Bear one thing in mind. Walmart hasn't been stopped. They will find a way to sneak in. For instance, a town in Maryland rezoned an area to prevent stores of a supercenters size. So Walmart broke the stores up, gave them there own electric and water systems and essentially created 3 mid size stores, a garden center, food center and general merchandise. The end result was a Walmart.

Walmart is an expert propaganda machine and can spin anything in it's favor. Bentonville (Arkansas the headquarters) exerts unusual control over the stores including controlling the temperature of the stores. So when you hear that Bentonville didn't know that such and such was going on at the store level I can assure you that is not true. Bentonville is big brother in one of the most centrally corporations known to man or god.

As far as putting my money where my mouth is, I have spent $50 at Walmart this year, it was a gift card from my employer. Otherwise, I avoid that place like a plague. Just remember the primary goal of business is to make money. I have no issues with Mobil making windfall profits. If you don't like it, buy a more effecient car, insulate your house like mad, and campaign for alternative fuels. But I do have an issue with Walmart increasing profits each year and cutting benefits. I also have an issue with the companies strong arm tactics of getting to markets it isn't wanted, and I already gave the maryland example to prove that.

Sorry for the rant but while I have no issues with a company making money I do have a problem with unethical greed.

[Kevin]

... BUT, it may have recharged a struggling economy, and everything you posted is worse-case. Walmart would just be getting all the other minimum wage laborers from the local shops, and may actually pay them above minimum wage. As far as benefits, as a potential employee the last thing I would consider when applying to Walmart is how good the dental plan is. It's a J O B, not a career, and most companies like McDonalds and such that cater to J O B grade employees know better than to spend a lot of time on things most of the employees won't be around long enough to enjoy anyways.

Most of Walmart's profits isn't from cutting health care benefits, it's from squeezing out the middle guy and offering mediocre products at a good price. As I said in the other thread, the reason the local businesses were worried is that their monopoly on the local economy was being threatened by a larger monopoly.

What I read above sounds more like verbatim walmart bashing from some of the anti-Walmart websites than a concerned citizen. It even sounds more like a case against capitalism, suggesting that a company that's thriving by playing by the rules of economics in America is doing something wrong. Let's perhaps attack the fundamental issues in our system that would make lower than average health benefits acceptible to someone working for wallyworld.

Walmart's business model is no different than any other retail chain (I've worked for Best Buy and Transworld Entertainment, so I feel their pain). But it was MY FAULT I ended up working there. Walmart doesn't kidnap employees and make them work at gun-point. So the real solution is DON'T WORK FOR THEM. if you can't find something better, then that's a sign you need to look harder or make some changes (go back to school, whatever). But there's always going to be working moms and retirees looking for extra income who welcome the flexible shifts offered by a large retail store like Walmart. We even had professionals working evenings once/twice a week at best buy as extra income and to get the employee discount.

BTW, I've personally boycotted doing my supermarket and most other shopping at Walmart due to whatever personal reasons I have. I'm not a fanboy or employee...

[pico23]

... BUT, it may have recharged a struggling economy, and everything you posted is worse-case. Walmart would just be getting all the other minimum wage laborers from the local shops, and may actually pay them above minimum wage. As far as benefits, as a potential employee the last thing I would consider when applying to Walmart is how good the dental plan is. It's a J O B, not a career, and most companies like McDonalds and such that cater to J O B grade employees know better than to spend a lot of time on things most of the employees won't be around long enough to enjoy anyways.

Most of Walmart's profits isn't from cutting health care benefits, it's from squeezing out the middle guy and offering mediocre products at a good price. As I said in the other thread, the reason the local businesses were worried is that their monopoly on the local economy was being threatened by a larger monopoly.

What I read above sounds more like verbatim walmart bashing from some of the anti-Walmart websites than a concerned citizen. It even sounds more like a case against capitalism, suggesting that a company that's thriving by playing by the rules of economics in America is doing something wrong. Let's perhaps attack the fundamental issues in our system that would make lower than average health benefits acceptible to someone working for wallyworld.

Walmart's business model is no different than any other retail chain (I've worked for Best Buy and Transworld Entertainment, so I feel their pain). But it was MY FAULT I ended up working there. Walmart doesn't kidnap employees and make them work at gun-point. So the real solution is DON'T WORK FOR THEM. if you can't find something better, then that's a sign you need to look harder or make some changes (go back to school, whatever). But there's always going to be working moms and retirees looking for extra income who welcome the flexible shifts offered by a large retail store like Walmart. We even had professionals working evenings once/twice a week at best buy as extra income and to get the employee discount.

BTW, I've personally boycotted doing my supermarket and most other shopping at Walmart due to whatever personal reasons I have. I'm not a fanboy or employee...

Actually no, my walmart rhetoric is first hand. I went to school in Fayetteville, Arkansas and have many friends at the Wally coporate office. Also at the store level in various states, including, NY, Mississippi, Arkansas and Alaska.

Never been to an anti Wally World site in my life. I did however work at a store for 18 mos. I left when my real job was returned to me. I was treated fine by my boss but I watched others get screwed. BTW, was asked to come back part time over last Christmas so I wasn't a bad employee or have an axe to grind after being fired. Quite contrary, I left under my own will to go to a better job after working 18 mos with no marks on my record (near perfect evals). I can't say i enjoyed a single day but I did enjoy watching the shanadigans on a daily basis. However, having experienced Walmart first hand I feel that while we worry about kids in sweatshops in India we should be also concerned about large corporations screwing US citizens. And corporations not picking up there fair share of the tab which then must be picked up by you and I through our bloated tax system. So really, I'm not as altruistic as a seem. See I don't like Walmart sucking tax money out of my pocket through it's lack of benefits.

But it was MY FAULT I ended up working there. Walmart doesn't kidnap employees and make them work at gun-point. So the real solution is DON'T WORK FOR THEM. if you can't find something better, then that's a sign you need to look harder or make some changes (go back to school, whatever).

Again, I have an issue with the tactics of the company who preys on those less fortunate. We live in a weird country, if you try to make a living and get off welfare we criticize you for not having an education. Basically the working poor in this country are damned if they do or damned if they don't. You have to start somewhere and I don't feel that in the US anyone should be making a profit off another persons misfortune. So yes I will stand up for those who lack an education but are at least attempting to improve themselves by working and making themselves economically self sufficient. If those people have a better life there is a chance that there kids might get the education you speak of and break a cycle. I personally don't believe in race keeping people down anymore, actually, it's economics. A poor black kid actually has a better chance then a poor white kid. Look at the media attention New Orleans got but white southern Mississippi didn't get much at all. Yet poor uneducated people are poor uneducated people regardless of race.

No walmart didn't make it's profits from cutting benefits but it's nevertheless the greed that it cut benefits because 10billion wasn't enough. Thats greed plain and simple. And again, Walmart expects to keep it's profits while forcing it's employee's into the medicaid system.

Wal-mart treats people as poorly as possible within the confines of the law, and it's proven that it will not tolerate the formation of unions that would not break the company, but give more equitable benefits and pay to employees that Walmart is now unwilling to give. It would prevent the firing of people because they make a certain amount of money or are benefit eligible.

Capitalism is fine, greed isn't. I choose to worry about my fellow citizens rather then bitch and moan about issues on the other side of the world. Fix the issues at home then go play world savior.

[scooch]

looks like my fellow saranac laker's will continue to drive to P'burgh for their...undergarments...lets just hope they don't stop wearing them!!!!!! lol

[Kevin]

No walmart didn't make it's profits from cutting benefits but it's nevertheless the greed that it cut benefits because 10billion wasn't enough. Thats greed plain and simple. And again, Walmart expects to keep it's profits while forcing it's employee's into the medicaid system.

Blame the share holder who places unreasonable expectations on the returns of such a largely profitable company. If they don't make an expected profit their shares get dumped, and value in the company falls jeopardizing future purchase of stock and ultimately threatening the company's current state of economic place. This would end up in crappier products, rising prices, and layoffs.

It's always amazed me how 2 people lookat the same situation and set of facts/concepts but interpret them completely different.

Just as an aside, economics doesn't run on morality and companies that do either change or go bankrupt. Again, IMHO we need to be talking about the evils inherent in America's variety of capitalism and our current economic climate rather than use Walmart as the poster child for all that's ill with the world.

[scooch]

Am I correct in that simly because Walmart was prevented from building on the out skirts of town, does not mean that they cannot focus efforts on "down-town" Saranac Lake? I believe I read that they can build multiple, smaller stores....

[Wldrns]

WNBZ radio generally has good coverage of local Saranac Lake issues. You can read a daily archive such as this one online.

[Keithk]

nope

Am I correct in that simly because Walmart was prevented from building on the out skirts of town, does not mean that they cannot focus efforts on "down-town" Saranac Lake? I believe I read that they can build multiple, smaller stores....

If you read the article, the Walmart spokesperson says this was the only viable location in Saranac Lake, and the board's decision effectively blocks them out of the town.

[redhawk]

Just reading some of the Wamart Rant, especially the big bad corporation being Anti_Union and therefore I guess a menace to society.

On a couple of occasions i have worked at jobs that i wasperfectly happy at and was making a fair wage that were "unionized" (and no I was not managament).

In both instances the union did more harm then good. My own opinion based on the people who worked to get the union in was that most were a bunch of lazy, irresponsible people who spent most of their time at work trying to find ways to goof off and bitching in general.

In both cases, the employers ended up shutting down the businesses after a few months and moved elsewhere, therefore denying people who were content with the job and making a living, out in the cold.

I have first hand experience with unions, as well as "the poor exploited wal mart workers" and with living on one occassion in a town that became "Walmarted"

My experience wiith Unions is absolutely negative, not only would I not join a union, I would work fanatically against one being formed in a place I was employed.

My relatives who work for Walmart, many without higher education, some who have made management level and are making a living that lets them be "comfortable" are evidently blind to being taken advantage of. Guess they're too stupid to realize it. I also know a few "Lazy indians" (according to the White communites they live in) who are also happy to be eble to support their families and who incidently have medical benefits.

I am also curious as to how much of these stories about Walmart are either based on personal experience ot the experiences of others that you know. Or is it all just part of listening to the propoganda of the Anti Walmart lobby?

Here's the bottom line on much of what I see. A lot of towns need an economic boost, but they want it on their own terms which is often not realistic considering the changes that technology and "progress' have brought.

It's like asking for job, and expecting the employer to build his business around your needs and paying you at the same time. Come to think of it, I had a lot of people like that who wanted jobs in my restaurants, and it got worse and worse as time went on.

I'm curious, can anyone point specific towns and document absolutely that Wal-Mart ruined it?

The other thing people have to realize is that as we lean towards a "Global Economy" (which personally am opposed too as a "little guy"), Mom and Pop stores often cannot compete, it's not Walmarts fault.

Oddly enough it often seems likes it's the "Red, White and Blue, Mom and Apple Pie Good Ol Patriotic, USA loving Americans that oppose Wal-mart. Yet this country is based on capitalism and success stories.

I also know of several "disadvantaged" people who worked for Wal Mart, and besides supporting themselves were able to save money, go to college, get successful careers and are living the American Dream.

Thanks to a job at Wal-mart and a willingness to work at achieving their goals.

What I think everyone neds to ask themselves is if Wal Mart is such a bad employer, why so many people are willing to work there? HMMMM

[scooch]

I guess I should rephrase my initial question regarding whether or not Walmart could locate in a different part of town.....

I know that the sand-pit was the only viable locationfor a super-center, but Walmart has smaller stores and was wondering if they may try getting in that way.

[johnstp]

I posted this on a similar thread and I'll post it again -

The next time SL'ers complain about lack of jobs, lack of affordable shopping, lack of traffic stopping and shopping and high taxes, they can remember they voted the board in.

[scooch]

so true...so true....

SORRY KEITH...I had not read as far as you had....I had only read that Tom Michael had said that while Walmart had been prevented form building at the sad pit, they had not been Pushed out of the community all together.....not challenging you....just didn't get as far as you had.....(walmart spokesperson said that they had effectively been prevented from building in SL). (i guess it takes someof us longer than others...lol)

[Keithk]

I posted this on a similar thread and I'll post it again -

The next time SL'ers complain about lack of jobs, lack of affordable shopping, lack of traffic stopping and shopping and high taxes, they can remember they voted the board in.

It isn't as simple as "let a giant Walmart come in, or you never get to complain about shopping and taxes again."

I have never heard anyone from the village deny that the town needs some type of department store for people to do their basic shopping at. However, this doesn't mean they have to support Walmart. Take Hacketts up in Pdam for example, or even the Giant Tiger (yes, that is actually the name of a store ). It's not a question of "Walmart or nothing," and if it were, we'd all be in a load of trouble, because the whole monopoly thing didn't work out so well in the past.