post holing

[Jason]

I have a point to bring up that I don't think should get too contentious, but I am curious as to the reaction people will have.

I have been hiking for awhile, but I only recently have I begun to monitor Adirondack trip reports on this and many other sites around the internet. One of the aspects of winter reports that has surprised me is the extent to which people will comment on finding postholes in the snow. I have read numerous reports which are essentially worthless in terms of important details (not on this site, of course, which feature extremely detailed and often interesting reports) but will go on and on about postholing hikers.

I find this curious, since I have always found that snow, whether packed or freshly fallen, is a malleable and unreliable surface which provides fun variety to a hike. I cannot see how a hole in the snow really matters when one is employing snow shoes anyway, since the shoe will distribute ones weight throughout the entirety of the surface in question and not upon a single point which may or may not be sunken in.

It's probably stupid to go hiking in the winter without snowshoes, but if one is conscientious enough to have snowshoes for him or herself then what other people do is really a moot point. I understand that it is more aesthetically pleasing to see a trail broken by skis or snowshoes only, but the trail surfce is hardly the most important part of the scenery.

I am not trying to stir a debate, but I think it is fair to point out that this obsession of featuring postholing as the main aspect of brief trip reports seems a bit uninspired. Any thoughts?

Jason Feulner

[Dick]

I have been hiking for awhile, but I only recently have I begun to monitor Adirondack trip reports on this and many other sites around the internet. One of the aspects of winter reports that has surprised me is the extent to which people will comment on finding postholes in the snow. I have read numerous reports which are essentially worthless in terms of important details (not on this site, of course, which feature extremely detailed and often interesting reports) but will go on and on about postholing hikers.

. Hi Jason, I understand your point about internet discussion. What often happens on "controversial" or popular topics is the development of a "me too" discussion with everyone jumping on a bandwagon (one side or the other). That said, I think postholing is and should be more of an issue to some than others. Skiiers, for example. Postholes can be dangerous in some circumstances. Coupled with that is the regulation in the high peaks for snowshoes to be carried, and worn in the winter with 8" or more of snow. Some discussions do lose the forest for the trees, but the subject is not unimportant. I don't think aesthetics is really the issue.

[ADackR]

I have a point to bring up that I don't think should get too contentious, but I am curious as to the reaction people will have.

I have been hiking for awhile, but I only recently have I begun to monitor Adirondack trip reports on this and many other sites around the internet. One of the aspects of winter reports that has surprised me is the extent to which people will comment on finding postholes in the snow. I have read numerous reports which are essentially worthless in terms of important details (not on this site, of course, which feature extremely detailed and often interesting reports) but will go on and on about postholing hikers.

i think the lack of detail reports is a result of people not remembring every detail of a trip but only the highlights... the post holes are a highlight not in the fun category but most likey the category.

I find this curious, since I have always found that snow, whether packed or freshly fallen, is a malleable and unreliable surface which provides fun variety to a hike. I cannot see how a hole in the snow really matters when one is employing snow shoes anyway, since the shoe will distribute ones weight throughout the entirety of the surface in question and not upon a single point which may or may not be sunken in..

sure the snow changes but not all use snowshoes.. post holes in soft powder are easily tracked over (with ski or shoe) even this can casue issue while skiing. however, it's when the weather changes and the postholse freeze... only after another snowfall will these holes usually be filled in... this casues major problems with ski's and shoes... yes, snowshoes do have an issue trying to sit flat on terrain that is uneven and unforgiving...

It's probably stupid to go hiking in the winter without snowshoes, but if one is conscientious enough to have snowshoes for him or herself then what other people do is really a moot point. I understand that it is more aesthetically pleasing to see a trail broken by skis or snowshoes only, but the trail surfce is hardly the most important part of the scenery.

I am not trying to stir a debate, but I think it is fair to point out that this obsession of featuring postholing as the main aspect of brief trip reports seems a bit uninspired. Any thoughts?

Jason Feulner

it's all about each hiker being conscientious towards him/herself and others... like i said before, a frozen posthole casues havoc for skiing and shoeing...

[Gray Ghost]

Adackr is right on. After a freeze postholes can be a royal pain. What's even more irritating is they are created either by people who think they're "above the law" (where applicable), are annoyingly ignorant, or just don't give a damn. It could also be that some are too cheap to buy or at least rent a pair of snowshoes. I think the various complaints in trip reports are testament to the severity of the problem, not that all the hikers are just being crybabies. Not sure if you pay attention to VFTT, but if you saw how a couple of idiots attacked Pinpin on the topic, it is easy to see that "right" and "wrong" in this discussion are pretty clearly defined.

[hillman1]

It's a safety issue, not one about how it makes the trail look. I personally hate it though, when someone walks bareboot in my ski track. When I go out locally, i set a track off to the side. Then the next day I go back to find my track all messed up by walkers. Then I go and set a new track hoping that it won't get messed up. It always does. It will never end, so I just deal with it. I think someone that goes deep into the mountains without snowshoes is asking for trouble.

[JJW]

Getting good information from trip reports is hit and miss anyway.

The people that are harping about post-holeing, let them vent.

I Know their frustration.

[forevrwyld]

I've found it more of a problem on skiis when your grip zone gets over the hole and guess what -->> NO GRIP.

I have to admit though, that on a real steep incline, we are at times (not often . . but when steep or real icy) guilty of the bare boot routine. Saves demolishing a tree with your face. Sorry.

'Ev

[Mavs00]

Yup, everyone summed it up pretty good. Postholes (particularly ones "set" by a freeze/thaw cycle) can not only be a pain to fellow snowshoers, but dangerous to skiers in some situations.

[kurtteej]

Sorry for chiming in with this, but the city boy would like to know what Post Holing is. Could anyone explain this to me?

Is this a deep hole in the snow left by someone on foot when they should have on snow shoes or x-country skis?

[lumberzac]

Sorry for chiming in with this, but the city boy would like to know what Post Holing is. Could anyone explain this to me?

Is this a deep hole in the snow left by someone on foot when they should have on snow shoes or x-country skis?

You got it.

[Jason]

It's interesting to see the responses. I don't x-c ski very often, so I can see how postholes might be more frustrating to skiers than snowshoers. I imagine that most x-c skiers are good sports who enjoy varied terrain, and there are undoubtedly a few who might whine about the trail not being totally perfect (hence angry posts on other sites). Thankfully, most x-c skiers I've known fall into the former, more friendly category.

Ultimately, I think postholing is one of those things that really, in the cosmic sense, aren't a big deal, but cause annoyance because the people who make postholes seem like a bunch of careless fools who are shoving through the snow without much thought. Since most of us hike and ski because we love the experience, thoughtless people perplex us. Postholes are a constant reminder that some people trudge through nature without thinking at all about how to adapt to its conditions.

Thanks for all the comments! Here's to no more postholing!

Jason Feulner