ADK housing

[Zach]

Property tax rates in the Adirondacks are not uniform. For example the taxes are much lower in Piercefield, in St. Lawrence County, than they are in Tupper Lake, which is adjacent but in Franklin County. I had planned on moving to Tupper Lake, but one of the unintended benefits of where I ended up instead is lower taxes.

[Bunchberry]

Maybe non native Adirondackers could be categorized as an invasive species. The DEC could put out traps for them. Like set up a pizza joint with New York City pizza. That will bring in a lot of them. When they come in dart them and then ship them back to were they came from!

Hell they may even catch my wife. She says the pizza around Halfmoon sucks.

[montcalm]

I bet they'd catch a few at Tony Harper's too.


I really just posted to harass TCD. But we all know it's fun to stay at the YMCA.


As far as tax variations based on town and county, that's not really what I meant. In fact what I'm proposing is already done based on assessed value - some towns are quite rich because of this, but when their year-round residents are suffering, they need to do something to try to even the field and keep properties affordable for those who work there, and will never be "rich" no matter their education or how hard they work.

[TCD]

Well, I appreciate the harassment! (I know it means you really like me...)

You have a good point about the tax base. When I lived in Glens Falls, I watched the same thing happen in the Lake George area. Property assessments became so high that older owners on fixed incomes could not pay the taxes and were driven out. So I think there might be a place for some higher taxes on wealthy "second homes."

But this varies place by place. I live in Keene. Yes, there are some very wealthy "multiple home" folks here who maybe should pay more. But on the flip side, many of our wealthy neighbors do wonderful things for the community. A lot of what happens here with libraries, pre-school, the arts, etc. would not happen without large, often very quiet donations from some of these folks.

But back to the OP of housing: No, of course it's not "fun" to live in a dorm, as opposed to living in your own private home! "Fun" is not the point. The point is: if you want to live in a particular place, and you don't have the money to afford a private home there, then you either have to have some other kind of roof over your head, or you can't stay. Common sense says you need to balance your "want to live here" with practicality. When I graduated college, I went to work in Miami, FL. Miami sucks, and I never wanted to live there, but that was the best job offer I got, and common sense said to put aside "wanting to live in the mountains." I finally got out of Miami and moved to Glens Falls. Much better, but I still wanted very much to live here in Keene. But there is no work here for me, so again, common sense said to work along for 30 more years until I could retire, and finally move here.

[montcalm]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to villainize these people, only promote that the towns and counties have some control over this, and can and should exercise this. If the state steps in it's going to be less effective and more subject to cronyism.

I also get concerned about overdevelopment - if we make it too easy, then we'll see massive land development (and I believe this an issue all over the state, not just the ADKs). That's actually a huge plus to the dormitory idea - development is restricted to towns. But I'm also guessing a good portion of people don't necessarily want to live in the Adirondacks that way i.e. they want a more rural lifestyle - perhaps they want to rehabilitate an old farm house, etc...

As far as your last statement TCD, I couldn't agree more. I would love to live in the Adirondacks, especially now while I'm still young(er) and relatively healthy. But being educated the job market becomes quite restrictive. Sure I could work at a grocery store and maybe eeek out a living, but that's not for me. But really someone has to and towns should make sure they take care of those individuals... if they don't, they will eventually disappear and there'll be nothing but million dollar lake and mountain view houses.

I also think about the retirement aspect - you really don't want to tax those individuals to death (no pun intended) but you also don't want to make it so easy to retire in the Adirondacks that we end up like Florida (although I think the climate makes that an impossibility, but still).

I see how things are in the Finger Lakes, and while some parts of the Adirondacks have close to that level of development, I'd never want to see it become to that widespread. And even with that being said, there's not much economy in these places - many people (that are well off) commute to large cities nearby for work.

[saabrian]

"If the state steps in it's going to be less effective and more subject to cronyism"

LOL!!! Because there's no cronyism in rural places... especially when it comes to the relationship between small town politicians and developers (who are often one and the same).

I have no objection to the dorm idea. Every little bit helps. It's great for certain groups - primarily younger and single. But is it going to be that appealing for a parent or couple with kids? Every little bit helps. But I am skeptical this is going to make much of a difference generally. Maybe in specific places.

"It's not fun but..." is not really a great marketing ploy. It pretty much guarantees that dorms are going to be viewed as temporary and of last resort. That does not really bode well for its longer term impact. I assume we want people to move to the Adks for work... and stay there!

[wiiawiwb]

No question that those who live and work in the Adirondacks are getting priced out of living near where they work. That dynamic is underscored when gas prices are rising by leaps and bounds making commuting to work almost, if not totally, unaffordable. The proverbial quagmire.

Towns, counties and school districts could offer their own "STAR" program whereby a credit is allowed against real estate taxes levied. Gear the qualifier toward those who live and work in the area along with an income test much like the "Senior STAR".

It's one thing to have a city such as NYC unaffordable because there is a mass transit system in place that allows those who work in NYC to commute. In the ADKs, the only commuting mechanism is your vehicle which nowadays is nearly unaffordable as a means to get hinther and yon especially in a environment where home and work can be a distance apart.

[billconner]

Not to mention heating in addition to gasoline. I use to get oil bills around $400. Last week's was over $1000. Don't think dorms work for a family of 4 but like the Star program thoughts.

[montcalm]

Fuel oil is a concern. We need to get off that stuff although I’m sure a number of people in the region are invested in this and the alternatives are not cheap.

I found it interesting that central New York had its own regional program to alleviate cost of geothermal. I’m also not sure this will be the end all, say all in terms of heat energy. In fact, due to remoteness and storm interruptions, I’m not sure the grid alone is going to work in the north country. With any change in our dependence on fossil fuels and increasing prices, this will certainly strain those individuals the most.

[chairrock]

Fuel oil is a concern. We need to get off that stuff although I?m sure a number of people in the region are invested in this and the alternatives are not cheap.

I found it interesting that central New York had its own regional program to alleviate cost of geothermal. I?m also not sure this will be the end all, say all in terms of heat energy. In fact, due to remoteness and storm interruptions, I?m not sure the grid alone is going to work in the north country. With any change in our dependence on fossil fuels and increasing prices, this will certainly strain those individuals the most.

We have "geothermal", best thing we ever did... in the Finger Lakes....as long as the grid stays lit..... we are planning on solar to get totally off grid... long term it makes sense. The up front money is a problem, but the long term savings and "green" benefits count... I almost wish they would codify "geothermal" into new construction...

[montcalm]

We have "geothermal", best thing we ever did... in the Finger Lakes....as long as the grid stays lit..... we are planning on solar to get totally off grid... long term it makes sense. The up front money is a problem, but the long term savings and "green" benefits count... I almost wish they would codify "geothermal" into new construction...

Yeah, your area has the incentives - I think it's because you don't have any NG resources there. The issue is similar in the Adirondacks but I'm not sure if the wells are going to be as easy to install. Again, you need some electricity to power to the system - that could be in the form of batteries.

Perhaps people in the north country will have to revert back to wood as a backup, at minimum.

[chairrock]

Yeah, your area has the incentives - I think it's because you don't have any NG resources there. The issue is similar in the Adirondacks but I'm not sure if the wells are going to be as easy to install. Again, you need some electricity to power to the system - that could be in the form of batteries.

Perhaps people in the north country will have to revert back to wood as a backup, at minimum.

The well is actually pretty easy... one day, 500 foot deep....depends on soil or rocks.... can be done in an urban back yard...expensive? maybe....Howard Hughs did design a great drill bit....battery? where do they get charged?

[montcalm]

The well is actually pretty easy... one day, 500 foot deep....depends on soil or rocks.... can be done in an urban back yard...expensive? maybe....Howard Hughs did design a great drill bit....battery? where do they get charged?

Right - it's the expense of the depth and then the coil, which as I was looking was pretty high. And of course the unit itself.

I was mentioning battery (home) as a backup to grid in the event you lose your connection during a storm. You could also have a solar system or whatever. Mainly my thought though is people are going to have to have a generator and/or wood backups.

[BillyGr]

Property taxes typically are based solely on assessed Property Value, however a year round resident making 30-40K a year can't afford property worth several hundred thousand dollars or more with the taxes attached to it. When your neighbor builds a million dollar home next door to your small cabin in the woods, your property values increase to a point the taxes on them become confiscatory and you can lose your home. Need to have a circuit breaker for property taxes based on some other variable(s) such as family income, provided the person(s) on that property are year-round residents actually living & working there in community too. I'm sure this isn't the first time this idea has been heard.

That makes no sense. If your house is much smaller than that million dollar one, it will never be valued the same.

The value of the land might go up a little, but that is only a small portion of the overall value - the majority of it is the building and that won't be worth more just because there is a large one near it.

I have no objection to the dorm idea. Every little bit helps. It's great for certain groups - primarily younger and single. But is it going to be that appealing for a parent or couple with kids? Every little bit helps. But I am skeptical this is going to make much of a difference generally. Maybe in specific places.

"It's not fun but..." is not really a great marketing ploy. It pretty much guarantees that dorms are going to be viewed as temporary and of last resort. That does not really bode well for its longer term impact. I assume we want people to move to the Adks for work... and stay there!

They don't have to be dorms as most think of them. Someone could build what basically would look like a 1950's motel (the individual cabins clustered in one area, just having enough to be a full time living vs. a place to stay travelling) and rent or sell those out.

They would be smaller than most "regular" houses, thus cheaper to build and maintain, and being a group in one spot they would have lower taxes (less land with each)

Not to mention heating in addition to gasoline. I use to get oil bills around $400. Last week's was over $1000. Don't think dorms work for a family of 4 but like the Star program thoughts.

Fuel oil is a concern. We need to get off that stuff although I?m sure a number of people in the region are invested in this and the alternatives are not cheap.

It is expensive at the moment - doesn't mean it will stay that way. Luckily, this is the time of year most are using little (if any - only those who also heat water with it would) anyway, so that gives it time to readjust before the next heating season.

There are also ways to save on that - in fact, we had prepaid for ours last year and thus even if we were still getting that delivered today (not needing it now) it would have been only $2.82, no matter what the "market" price was! Quite a break from the current pricing, and it was never higher than that all year since last fall (and, had the actual price gone lower, it would adjust that way as well, so you aren't stuck with a high price).
Probably not all companies offer that, but certainly worth checking around to see if one in your area does.

[billconner]

That makes no sense. If your house is much smaller than that million dollar one, it will never be valued the same.

The value of the land might go up a little, but that is only a small portion of the overall value - the majority of it is the building and that won't be worth more just because there is a large one near it.

Of course the total taxes go up. A dump surrounded by expensive real estate is worth more. Assessed value should relate to market value. They're called million dollar tear downs.