war over wilderness

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  • adk-46r
    IT'S GRACE & CARSON PEAKS
    • Nov 2003
    • 179

    #1

    war over wilderness

    War over the wilderness: Development vs. preserve in the Adirondacks

    By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, JOHNSBURG -- Earl Allen keeps the location of his hunting camp a heavily guarded secret.

    Nestled somewhere deep in the woods, the camp sits on a 2 1/2-acre patch of forest, completely surrounded by land owned by New York state.

    The state fought hard to acquire Allen's camp land for preservation in the early 1970s, bombarding Allen and his wife, Daisy, with repeated letters and phone calls to his Edwards Hill Road home, he said. Allen refused to sell.

    He placed all the letters the state ever sent him about the property in his stove and set fire to them.

    He still sometimes goes to the camp, accessible only by foot or four-wheeler, to hunt with his grandson.

    Though the ordeal is long over, Allen still won't reveal the camp's location, seemingly worried about jogging someone's memory at the state.

    "I wouldn't give the state nothing," he said sharply during an interview earlier this month, his 80-year-old hand balling into a fist on his dining room table.

    Allen's frustrations with the state's land acquisition practices in the Adirondack Park run deep and resonate with municipal leaders in Johnsburg and other Warren County towns that have significant percentages of state-owned land.

    For decades, what one environmentalist called the "great Adirondack debate" has raged between local municipalities and environmental groups. Town leaders say state regulations have needlessly destroyed historic structures and squelched their ability to widen their tax bases.

    One Johnsburg town official, who requested his name be withheld for fear of retribution, likened state land to cancer.

    Environmentalists and the state, however, tout the forest preserve as the driving force behind the Adirondack economy.

    But this month, the towns began channeling their frustrations toward an unprecedented attempt at compromise.

    The 110 or so members of the Adirondack Association of Towns and Villages are pooling money from the association's members -- about $250 to $500 each -- to pay the application fee for a grant that would fund a study of how state land affects their economies. The goal is to raise $20,000.

    The grant the AATV is seeking comes from the state Quality Communities Program.

    If the AATV does not receive the grant, it will use the money to pay a consultant.

    The study will be used to make the case for creating a proposed 5,000-acre "land bank" within the Adirondack Park -- a mechanism that would allow towns constrained by state land to "withdraw" acreage for development.

    It's an idea hatched by the planning board in the town of Arietta, Hamilton County, more than 90 percent of which is state land.

    A land bank, however, would require a state constitutional amendment that would need to pass in two consecutive state legislatures before going to the public for a vote, according to Robert K. Davies, director of the Department of Environmental Conservation's division of lands and forests.

    Fred Monroe, town supervisor of Chester and an active association representative, is willing to forge ahead -- especially with the study.

    A constitutional amendment "wouldn't have much of a chance of passing unless it could be documented that towns are having problems with state land," he said.

    "The state and environmental groups spend a great deal of time looking at how human activity impacts the environment," Monroe said. "But no one looks at the reverse -- how state land policies impact humans."

    Houses vs. trees: the final count

    The question of how all that forest affects local towns and villages is an age-old debate.

    A 2003 study conducted by the Wildlife Conservation Society titled "Do Public Lands Constrain Economic Development in the Adirondack Park?" found no clear ties between a town's economic state and the amount of state land it harbored.

    "We didn't find anything that statistically significantly said yes, this puts a strain on the economy," said Andrew Keal, geographic information systems coordinator for the society who co-authored the study.

    Keal said the study came about after long-standing rifts between town leaders and environmentalists hit a fever pitch.

    But this time around, the push to create a land bank could bury one of the largest bones of contention between town leaders and environmentalists: the amount of land the state owns.

    The state owns 46 percent of the Adirondack Park in the form of forest preserve. Conservation easements take up another 4.6 percent. The remaining land is privately owned.

    That's all well and good, Monroe said, but the state has never told Adirondack communities how much land it ultimately wants -- a detail that would make it much easier for towns to plan their growth.

    "There's never been a stated plan for the percentage between state and private land," Monroe said. "We know every time the state purchases private land, the development rights are just blanked out. When you restrict the supply, demand goes up, then prices go up."

    Uncertainty over how much land the state will want in the future has prompted the town of Johnsburg to begin the process of expanding its hamlets so more land is available for possible development in the future, Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas said.

    But Peter Bauer, executive director of the Residents' Committee to Protect the Adirondacks, said uncertainty exists on the other side of the coin, too.

    "Local governments always ask, and rightfully so, how much land the state will own ultimately," he said. "But how many houses will be built in each town, ultimately? That's what we ask."

    About 1,000 new houses are built across the Adirondack Park each year, Bauer said. In the past 25 years, the state has purchased 850,000 acres of forest preserve and conservation easements, he said.

    Yet no one can come up with a definitive end total for either.

    The question of how much land the state should own is "a valid question the state should answer," Bauer said. "On the flip side, how many houses will be built in the park?"

    'The hand of man'

    Earl Allen remembers finding frogs in the toilets he unplugged during the 10 years he worked as a maintenance man at Fox Lair, a 1,200-acre boys' camp in the Siamese Pond Wilderness.

    Before it became the summer home for hundreds of boys, Fox Lair was the series of grand mansions owned by perfume manufacturer Richard Hudnut.

    Famed silent movie actor Rudy Valentino used to stay at Fox Lair when he wanted to get away.

    But Fox Lair burned to the ground in the 1970s after the state bought the land and torched the buildings because they did not comply with forest preserve guidelines that aim to erase evidence of "the hand of man" in designated wilderness areas.

    Allen is still bitter about the burning.

    The AATV study will likely explore how the loss of historic structures like those at Fox Lair has affected the area, if at all.

    Johnsburg Town Supervisor Thomas, who remembers visiting Fox Lair as a child with his father, lamented the lost historic site that could have generated tourism dollars.

    "Imagine how we could have promoted that today," Thomas said.

    The practice of burning structures to re-create a forest setting infuriates town leaders in Warren County, who say the presence of those structures proves the Adirondack Park offers towns a bit more room to grow.

    "A lot of what they classify as wilderness is not really wilderness," Monroe said. "It's like they're trying to manufacture wilderness. How can you say the hand of man hasn't touched it when there's a 200-year-old road?"

    J.R. Risley, the town supervisor of Inlet, Hamilton County, and president of the AATV, said the survival of history within Adirondack communities could hinge upon the study.

    "You can drive anywhere in the state, anywhere in the park and not have any recollection of what was there 100 years ago in some places," Risley said. "We've lost things already. We've got to do the study and identify them and find the things to curb it."

    Green feedback

    The frustrations expressed by town supervisors in Warren County and across the Adirondack Park are nothing new to David Gibson, executive director of the Association for the Protection of the Adirondacks.

    "It's a very old conversation that's always new," Gibson said. "We have to explain why we have wilderness in the Adirondacks. It will always be a point of contention."

    The wilderness, according to environmentalists, is the driving force behind the tourist economy in the Adirondacks. Visitors don't just hike, fish, ski and hunt, but eat in restaurants, buy gas, stay in hotels and pay taxes on summer homes.

    Gibson said the association's study is evidence the argument is now going in a more constructive direction. He's interested to see if the association will allow organizations like his to contribute.

    "I hope I'm not called back in a year or two and they say, 'Here's the work.' I hope I'm involved in it," he said.

    John Sheehan, spokesman for the Adirondack Council, said the environmental group is leery about the land bank proposal because it's similar to the state Department of Transporation's land bank, which Sheehan says holds little regard for the forest preserves.

    "Our experience has been abuse of the privilege," he said. "We don't want to rule it out, but I think they're expressing a real need here that has to be solved in some way. And if their answer isn't the solution, then it's up to us to come up with a better solution."

    Risley said he understands the need to preserve forest land, but the study must go forward for the sake of towns like his that have little to no room for growth because of state land.

    "The Adirondack communities are what make the Adirondacks," he said. "The people who come here to enjoy this park aren't going to be able to if we don't do this."
    IT IS NOT A PARK
    IT IS THE ADIRONDACKS
    I WAS BORN HERE
    IT IS MY HOME
    IT IS WHERE I WORK
  • Wildernessphoto
    Member
    • Jan 2004
    • 1767

    #2
    This is interesting reading to me...as a land owner, and taxpayer in the park, I'm starting to follow these debates with interest. As NYS buys up more property, and these properties goes off the tax rolls, it does create a problem for the remaining taxpayers to pick up the bill...NY is already one of the highest taxed states, and we are using tax dollars to buy more land, to take it off the tax rolls.

    We don't have the money to maintain the property the state already owns (Duck Hole, Cedar lake dams, lean-to's, and trails falling into disrepair, Etc. ) We seem to be at the mercy of the Governors 1,000,000 acre goal.

    I for one, will be interested to see what this report finds.
    -Gary-
    The Wilderness Photography of Gary F. Dean
    facebook photography of Gary F. Dean

    It's Not A Map...It's a "To-Do" List!

    Comment

    • Hugh
      Member
      • Feb 2005
      • 203

      #3
      (I for one, will be interested to see what this report finds ) I dont put a whole lotta stock in reports as I find any report will say whatever,whoever pays for it wants it to say,I do however put alot in what I know to be true in this case that the state owns or controls half of all lands within the blueline and severly restricts the rest with no compensation to the owners. Hugh

      Comment

      • Woodspirit
        Member
        • Jan 2004
        • 109

        #4
        Taxes on Forest Preserve

        Just for the record, the state pays real property taxes on all Forest Preserve lands.
        Woodspirit

        Comment

        • Hugh
          Member
          • Feb 2005
          • 203

          #5
          Just for the record, the state pays real property taxes on all Forest Preserve lands) at a rate of about half of what private landowners pay when they fell like paying , take the town of Stoney Creek for example they had to sue the state to get anything at all. Hugh

          Comment

          • johnstp
            Member
            • Dec 2004
            • 201

            #6
            I live and work here, too. My taxes are high, but they're nowhere near what they would be if I lived on a similar property downstate.

            I agree with Hugh. Studies basically say whatever the people who pay for them want them to say.

            It strikes me that a lot of these counties are not interested in removing the wilderness designation to spur development, but to allow for more ATV and snowmobile access. These counties don't have a lot to offer in the way of tourist attractions (like Lake Placid), or even mountainous hiking trails (like the High Peaks towns) and they're willing to do whatever they can do to attract tourist dollars...and that includes letting people tear up their woods with ATVs.

            I'm not an extreme environmentalist, but I've never had a positive experience with an ATV. And, personally, I would never spend time and money in towns where I had to hike or snowshoe on trails with ATVs or snowmobiles whipping by.

            Comment

            • Wildernessphoto
              Member
              • Jan 2004
              • 1767

              #7
              Originally posted by Woodspirit
              Just for the record, the state pays real property taxes on all Forest Preserve lands.
              Hi Woodspirit!
              I haven't heard from you since Bog river flow.
              How've you been?

              Back to the subject at hand...
              Where does the State get the money it pays the real property taxes with?
              The Wilderness Photography of Gary F. Dean
              facebook photography of Gary F. Dean

              It's Not A Map...It's a "To-Do" List!

              Comment

              • Woodspirit
                Member
                • Jan 2004
                • 109

                #8
                Wildernessphoto,

                The state gets the money from its general revenues - in other words, we all pay for it. I think that the economists call them "transfer payments". Contrary to Hugh's experience, other town supervisiors tell me that the state does not come up short on the tax payments, although I am a little surprised to hear that.

                Where are your pics from your trip?
                Woodspirit

                Comment

                • Wildernessphoto
                  Member
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 1767

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Woodspirit
                  Where are your pics from your trip?
                  THAT's a sore subject...My camera shutter had issues and I lost a lot of my film.
                  I salvaged some of it...I'll have to put some shots up. The good news is I got my camera serviced/calibrated and I'm back in business! I can't complain, that's the first time I've had problems in 28 years of doing wilderness photography.
                  The Wilderness Photography of Gary F. Dean
                  facebook photography of Gary F. Dean

                  It's Not A Map...It's a "To-Do" List!

                  Comment

                  • Neil
                    Admin

                    • May 2004
                    • 6129

                    #10
                    I could fill several screenfulls on this subject making friends and enemies in the process. The whole situation is very "Catch 22".
                    Which is more important, the last few shreds of wild land remaining or attracting motorized recreationists in the hopes they will shed some green eating crummy food at some local eatery after "working" up an appetite on the trail?

                    Hmmm, I think I may have blown my cover.
                    The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                    Comment

                    • redhawk
                      Senior Resident Curmudgeon
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 10929

                      #11
                      I think the irony over this whole discussion is that if things were not the way they are at present, there wouldn't be any wilderness to argue over. Most of where we currently hike, ski, snowshoe, hunt, fish and paddle would be privately owned and would be available to only the elite few and those who wanted to pay for it.

                      That's assuming that there were any trees left.
                      "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                      Comment

                      • kurtteej
                        New to ***** (not t'foot)
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 227

                        #12
                        Seems to me that the land became wilderness because people clear cut the timber to the point where the soil couldnt hold water. The protections created because of this overuse created the recreation lands in the first place. If the recreation areas were not there there wouldnt be that much of an economy in the dax short of using the natural resources (which were depleted 150+ years ago, thus the current protections).

                        Here's where I gain even more friends and allies --> The land once designated as protected would not have the same needs as say land with a residence with school age children on it. The taxes that the state DOES pay are paid by people that by and large don't visit the adirondacks. The majority of state revenues are generated by Income based taxes and sales based taxes (this is also related to income, higher income earners consume more taxable goods). The local taxes that are paid are paid by individuals well south of the adirondacks. The taxes paid by locals are then designated against services used by locals (schools, fire, etc.). A more detailed economic study should be done by local governments to see if this IS truly hurting them or if it's giving them something that they might not have otherwise.

                        The state commissions need to understand that there are individuals that want to use ATVs and tear up land but there are others that don't want that. Since the Lake George region is already tourist central and getting VERY developed, "wild" areas in that region should be designated as ATV and other pollutant regions, but other truly wild areas need to be designated prohibiting those activities to protect what it has taken 150 years to redo. Remember, the revenues that are being used to pay the local taxes and to keep state lands wild mostly comes from individuals outside of the region.

                        In order for all parties to be happy compromises need to be made on all sides. I'm sorry in advance for those that will get annoyed at what I've put here, but this is what you'll get from others that live downstate.

                        KT
                        Kurt Tietjen
                        http://www.outdoorphotoguide.com

                        Comment

                        • Neil
                          Admin

                          • May 2004
                          • 6129

                          #13
                          Barabara Mcmartin's book, Perspectives on the Airondacks is a fascinating study that left me shaking my head in amazement. You can read a lengthy review here:


                          Both Forever Wild and Contested Terrain by Terrie are excellent as well.

                          Does the state put money into the local communities? Does state land somehow remove money? Is money the main issue? In the long run, develpment and money tend to go hand in hand. I can't imagine a study being done that isn't flawed and easily repudiated. In any case, the study "will be used to make the case for creating a proposed 5,000-acre "land bank" within the Adirondack Park"

                          In my mind a study is done to find out something you didn't already know. When you do a study to "make a case" it's a foregone conclusion as to what the "results" will be and those results will be wide open to criticism. Maybe they should use the quarter mill in some other way.
                          The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                          Comment

                          • redhawk
                            Senior Resident Curmudgeon
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 10929

                            #14
                            Originally posted by kurtteej
                            Seems to me that the land became wilderness because people clear cut the timber to the point where the soil couldnt hold water. The protections created because of this overuse created the recreation lands in the first place. If the recreation areas were not there there wouldnt be that much of an economy in the dax short of using the natural resources (which were depleted 150+ years ago, thus the current protections).

                            Here's where I gain even more friends and allies --> The land once designated as protected would not have the same needs as say land with a residence with school age children on it. The taxes that the state DOES pay are paid by people that by and large don't visit the adirondacks. The majority of state revenues are generated by Income based taxes and sales based taxes (this is also related to income, higher income earners consume more taxable goods). The local taxes that are paid are paid by individuals well south of the adirondacks. The taxes paid by locals are then designated against services used by locals (schools, fire, etc.). A more detailed economic study should be done by local governments to see if this IS truly hurting them or if it's giving them something that they might not have otherwise.

                            The state commissions need to understand that there are individuals that want to use ATVs and tear up land but there are others that don't want that. Since the Lake George region is already tourist central and getting VERY developed, "wild" areas in that region should be designated as ATV and other pollutant regions, but other truly wild areas need to be designated prohibiting those activities to protect what it has taken 150 years to redo. Remember, the revenues that are being used to pay the local taxes and to keep state lands wild mostly comes from individuals outside of the region.

                            In order for all parties to be happy compromises need to be made on all sides. I'm sorry in advance for those that will get annoyed at what I've put here, but this is what you'll get from others that live downstate.

                            KT
                            One of the things that is mind boggling to me, is that in places where there is so much private undeveloped land, why do people insist they they have to ride in State or national parks?

                            I know that in Wyoming and Montana, there are literally thousands of square miles of land suited to and available for ATV's and snowmobiles. Yet the owners of those same vehicles want Yellowstone opened up for their use, even thoug it is obvious that the pollution and erosion (in the case of atv's) is harmful.

                            Then I hear the whole tax thing and the "rights that taxpayers have" and about having tax dollars spent for things that go to "special interest".

                            Well, for years I have paid sewer tax and school taxes when I had a septic tank and no children or grandchildren in school. So why do I have to pay those taxes (which are much higher by the way) to support education and arthletic fields ands in some cases, swimming pools and all sorts of facilities for social and recreational use by other peoples children? If i have a well, why do I have to pay a water tax?

                            If the tax argument is valid, then don't those case apply also?
                            "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                            Comment

                            • JClimbs
                              Callousedhand
                              • Jul 2005
                              • 436

                              #15
                              I agree with most of the comments already mentioned: studies tend to show precisely what their funding agency wants them to show. You could save yourself a lot of money just by getting people to look around with an objective head once in awhile. Alas, the people who need to do just that wouldn't think of doing it; it would hurt their interests.

                              There is no doubt that high percentages of State Land increase the tax burden on townships. The state does NOT pay a fair share of its tax burden if/when it pays any.

                              The wilderness does indeed provide the greatest slice of the economic pie, but that slice tends to get its greatest carving from towns like Lake George & Lake Placid where a significant amount of development has already been enabled. Towns like Johnsburg, Thurman, Stony Creek, Arietta, North Hudson, etc. have a hard time providing basic services and acquiring those funds the state owes them. Simply put, what is left is diddly. These towns are forced to vie not for tourist money per se but for second home owners, who can and do end up paying a large part of the taxes.
                              But that second home market is the antithesis of a goal of wilderness: land that gets bought for this either gets donated to the state when the downstate owner dies or gets sold and subdivided into yet more second home dwellings. Either wilderness expands at the expense of local taxpayers or development eats into wilderness and raises the tax rates by creating homes no local person can afford. Guess who loses either way?

                              The Promise of Development isn't a good answer, since that will create a situation ripe for wilderness destruction.
                              Unfortunately, in an economic system where free reign isn't allowed, some form of ongoing intervention is necessary. The question is what form that intervention should take.

                              Many small townships suffer from penalizing actions of the APA for arguments that are now 30+ years old. Perhaps a good start would be to bury the hatchets on those entirely, work on forcing equitable tax payments from the state, and freezing municipal required tax level raises (those taxes towns through their counties must collect for the state)permanently inside the Blue Line. The latter would help both constituents inside the BL while simultaneously limiting the state's taxation of itself for land it owns. People outside the Blue Line can then decide whether legal restrictions on inhabitants inside it are worth the increased tax burden for them...

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