82 year old hunter missing

[Justin]

A new 411 movie, Missing 411:The Hunted, will be coming out and it will include information about the search for Tom Messick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWX8Aq5bVBI

You can see the road into Lily Pond (:48) and the density of the forest (:41) there.

I'm looking forward to seeing this movie.

I just watched this for the first time. Definitely some pretty eerie stories!

https://youtu.be/khwPVkoW8IE

[wiiawiwb]

No doubt about it Schultzz. Wldrns and volunteers across this country give of themselves in selflessly and without hesitation particularly considering what families go through during those dire times. They should be applauded for both their efforts and their acts of kindness.

[Schultzz]

I have tremendous respect for Wldrns and his family for the selfless acts of kindness and service to our country and SAR. I cannot say enough good things about he and his family. So please don't take this the wrong way. The 411 movie is the result of many accounts of missing hikers and campers according to David Paulides. Hopefully it will create increased awareness of these lost people enough to demand answers from those who are in the know. And there are many who know. The underlying assumption from all this research points to creatures who could be described as "Bigfoot" and other creatures which allegedly have supernatural powers. That's the "bug" in the ointment. There are people who have answers but keep quiet because they have been told by higher ups to keep their mouth shut. Is this another wild conspiracy theory? Hardly, but a few brave "WHISTLE BLOWERS" defying the current laws need to be heard from. I realize this could turn into a "circus" but hopefully outdoorsmen will keep in mind the great losses suffered by the families of these unfortunate lost citizens. To avoid the "circus" feel free to PM me if you are interested in more credible information.

[wiiawiwb]

A new 411 movie, Missing 411:The Hunted, will be coming out and it will include information about the search for Tom Messick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWX8Aq5bVBI

You can see the road into Lily Pond (:48) and the density of the forest (:41) there.

I'm looking forward to seeing this movie.

[wiiawiwb]

Thanks for sharing Wldrns. That is exactly what I'm looking for and can spend time looking specifically in the PLS area.

Interestingly enough, to both the west and east of the PLS are peaks which I suspect provided a barrier to entry for him. I doubt an 82-year old man would choose to ascend 200' or 300' feet unless he had to. If he moved about, I'd guess he went north along either side of the road or back along the east side of Lily Pond and then had the corridor to Round Pond available with little or no elevation gain.

Thanks again Wldrns!

[wiiawiwb]

Three years have passed since the disappearance of Tom Messick. I know those who selflessly toiled during that time, like Wilderness (who is a God sent), worked their fingers to the bone (thank you). I also know that help was asked of hunters who visited the area and asked to be mindful and keep an eye out for him.

I wish those in charge would have released a detailed topo map of where he entered and where he went missing. What quadrants were searched and searched again. I think he was a tad north of the north end of Lily Pond. A grid-searched map would be invaluable. At this stage of the game, there is no reason to withhold anything.

I go to that area often and traipse around where I think the area Mr. Messick was in. I'd love to be able to focus in where he was dropped off but am not certain where he was when that happened. It would be so much more productive for authorities to share what they know and where he was that fateful day.

His family deserves closure however it comes.

[Bagadeez04]

I totally understand you not saying I'm going to be reckless or anything, but I think aging in that half day or so isn't a bad idea.

[Wldrns]

Interesting to hear you say this. When I leave details of where I'm going and when I should be back, I tell my wife that if Im not back by whatever time that evening to contact the forest ranger. That's just what I've always heard and assumed to be the proper thing to do.

But I have thought that if I did get lost and had to spend an extra night out, wouldn't it be irresponsible to have initiated some kind of search because I had to stay out an extra day or so? I guess i may change what I tell my wife in the future, give myself an extra half day or so in case I get a little lost.

Of course that scenario has to be tempered with good judgement. In that post I was speaking from a training perspective, harking back to the days decades ago when I self-taught myself backcountry navigation. Truth be told, at the time I usually told my wife I would be out at least a half day later than I secretly expected, just to avoid unnecessary worry if I was delayed with something interesting. Even then I knew the regional rangers well, and they knew my habits, and my wife had their numbers. In the case in which the weather turned bad, especially if I was canoeing, my wife knew enough to understand that I knew enough to shelter in place instead of taking unnecessary risks to make a firm take out time.

I was also partially thinking about my guide training treks. On one of my favorite off trail routes we operate out of a woodland base camp. If the student "leader of the day" and the others get "lost" navigating to a given destination, so be it, I don't intervene. An extra night in the woods with minimal gear is a great learning experience. As long as conditions are safe, figure out what happened and get yourself out without giving up. A detailed debriefing at the end of the exercise will reveal all. This comes from my own early experiences in which making mistakes and "getting lost" for a few hours or more taught me far more than being led by the hand through a known parkland.

[Bagadeez04]

Need to spend an extra night in the woods? Go for it.

Interesting to hear you say this. When I leave details of where I'm going and when I should be back, I tell my wife that if Im not back by whatever time that evening to contact the forest ranger. That's just what I've always heard and assumed to be the proper thing to do.

But I have thought that if I did get lost and had to spend an extra night out, wouldn't it be irresponsible to have initiated some kind of search because I had to stay out an extra day or so? I guess i may change what I tell my wife in the future, give myself an extra half day or so in case I get a little lost.

[Wldrns]

Last week I had dinner with a DEC ranger who said the hope was that when the seasonal residents opened up their cottages along the lake shore that something might be found. Still nothing has turned up to date. Of course the grounds and shoreline of the lakeshore residences were searched during the initial response.

[Vinegar]

The SAR teams of NY (26 of them as part of the NYS Federation of SAR teams) regularly train several times a year by organizing "mock searches".

While true, this weekend's search was indeed for the missing hunter. Nothing conclusive was found.

[wiiawiwb]

People hike, bushwhack, hunt, and camp in the Lily Pond and neighboring area. I think it would be enormously helpful that those in charge of the search (NYS Police?) release a map showing the areas considered thoroughly searched with a high degree of confidence.

In the future, those who go into the region would be able to focus their attention on the areas neighboring it. Essentially, it would be mobilizing a civilian search squad. I can't see any downside to doing so and, were he my family, I would have strongly urged the NYSP do so so a long time ago.

[cityboy]

This tragedy is eerily similar to what happened to a friend of the family a few years ago. His father was out hunting at night and separated from the group. Police were unable to find a trace. After about a week the two sons searched and found him at the bottom of a watery brush pile. He apparently had a heart attack and fell into the stream and was swept under. I suspect something similar here.

[Blackhawk]

'Not sure what you mean by this. Investigation by LE would have turned up evidence and not gone in the direction it did for 2 full weeks.

He was hunting with family, who by all appearances were concerned and loving (and were interviewed in detail). There was no report of any other hunters in the area, and no reports of gunshots.'[/QUOTE]

'He was hunting with family, who by all appearances were concerned and loving (and were interviewed in detail). There was no report of any other hunters in the area, and no reports of gunshots.'[/QUOTE]

while there was 'no report of any other hunters in the area' there still could've been others hunting there.
and while i'm not familiar with the area in question gunshots may not be heard depending upon terrain and other variable conditions.

I've spent many years hunting with family and friends in wilderness areas of the 'dacks. on one occasion while sitting around the campfire with my hunting party another group of hunters joined us. the one brother sitting next to me said his brother was shot and killed by another brother while deer hunting. I can't verify this incident at this point but it happens.
it happened several years ago about 5 miles from my home. two buddies deer hunting after well sundown and one buddy shot the other who died instantly.
another incident where family was bowhunting together well after sundown and the brother-in-law shot one of the brothers - he died instantly.

in another incident I heard the shot that took the life of a hunter approx. 1/4 mile away - that incident was determined to be a suicide within a short period of time - [too short imho] - without a thorough investigation.

there are good investigators but there are also investigators who lack common sense and experience.
there are ethical hunters but there are also unethical hunters.
there are searchers who know the woods and signs and there are also those who don't.

i'm hoping someone has made the decision to go back and doing the search operations over again - perhaps using different techniques and methods the missing hunter will be found.

[Schultzz]

"thank you very much wldrns for informing, educating and communicating with the masses on these types of searches for lost or missing individuals.
and thanks also for your patience in writing detailed responses to member questions or comments. education, training and technical information saves lives and brings closure to loved ones and peace to all involved." Blackhawk

DITTO