Enough Snow for Snow Shelters?

[jetfuel]

Hi,

I am planning a trip to the dacks this weekend. How much snow is on the ground now? Is there is enough to build a proper snow shelter, a la snow cave or quinzee?

Thanks,

-Jordan

[redhawk]

I live in Wells in the Southern dacks (Between Speculator and Northville).

I have a snow cave in my yard for my dogs so I am sure there is adequate snow.

I am going into the Santanoni Preserve this weekend and according to reports there is anbout 40 inches of snow there.

[hillman1]

There is definitely enough snow for a shelter. Any style.

[Jeff]

What is the most likely needed amount of snow to make a snow shelter?

[sacco]

i think it depends a great deal on the quality of the snow.

a foot of light, fluffy, virgin november snow isn't worth 2 inches of average snow.

[Neil]

If your making a quinzee you don't need very much, to be exact. The less there is the farther you have to carry it though in order to make a big pile. The least I've had was a foot and we built a 3 man quinzee. We cleared a huge area right down to the bare ground. I won't make a quinzee again unless its for several nights cuz it takes so long and is so much work.

[Martin]

If your making a quinzee you don't need very much, to be exact. The less there is the farther you have to carry it though in order to make a big pile. The least I've had was a foot and we built a 3 man quinzee. We cleared a huge area right down to the bare ground. I won't make a quinzee again unless its for several nights cuz it takes so long and is so much work.

It's probably easier to build the quinzee when there is alot of snow. You don't have to carry the snow needed as far.
Building a quinzee is actually pretty fun, to bad it takes time.

[VTskier]

I have one of these and its much, much easier then building a snowcave. Still takes about 3 1/2 hours, but much less work and you don't get wet crawling around like digging out a snow cave. I'm thinking of ordering the new short pole for a 7 ft single person igloo. I've tried building the 8 ft solo and it takes too long. With 2 people it goes by quickly.

http://www.grandshelters.com/

[looncry]

I have one of these and its much, much easier then building a snowcave. Still takes about 3 1/2 hours, but much less work and you don't get wet crawling around like digging out a snow cave. I'm thinking of ordering the new short pole for a 7 ft single person igloo. I've tried building the 8 ft solo and it takes too long. With 2 people it goes by quickly.

http://www.grandshelters.com/

I'm amazed at the abilities of good men to accomplish their goals! Looncry

[TBPDPTI]

Me too... haha, I thought that this was a current topic. Good catch. Where is good 'ol Hawk anyways?

[Wldrns]

Tug Hill

Just returned from skiing in to shovel a camp roof in Montague, in the heart of Tug Hill. The lake effect events over the past 10 days dropped 40+ inches of fluff that has compressed to 14-16 inches of the finest dense "styrofoam snow" you can imagine. But with its density it weighs about 50 times as much as styrofoam. Firm and easily carve-able, it would be excellent for block shelter building - though not so great for a quinzee. Glad I got all those tons of weight off the roof.

[dpc34]

what is a Quinzee---any pics..dave

[Dick]

I'll leave it to Wldrns and others who have actually built one for details and comments, but here are a couple of links:

http://www.callofthewild.ca/quinzee.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinzhee

http://www.instructables.com/id/Quinzee-Building/

http://www.wintercampers.com/wintercamperscom-home/winter-camping-skills/how-to-build-a-quinzee/

http://www.ed.mtu.edu/esmis/id197.htm

http://www.wilderness-survival-skills.org/2009/04/quinzee-snow-shelter.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsF50uRS05o

Dick

[Wldrns]

I'll leave it to Wldrns and others who have actually built one for details and comments,

Real basic:
- Use a shovel to throw snow into a mound at least 6 feet high. A mound 8 feet high will take a LOT more snow and time than one 6 feet high. Any kind of loose snow will work, even dry and fluffy, as long as it is not chunky (you don't want large air pockets between chunks). The time to do this is extremely variable, depending on the amount of depth of snow available to throw. With plenty of snow it may only take a half hour. A tall stick stuck upright in the snow helps to be a centerpoint target.

- DO NOT tamp the snow or otherwise interfere with its naturally forming shape as the snow falls down the sides of the mound as it gets higher and wider.

- Wait for the snow to settle and "sinter" as the crystals interlock themselves together under their own weight. DO NOT tamp or otherwise assist nature in this. Two hours is best, though depending on the snow it could be dig-able in only an hour. You know you've got it right when you suddenly hear it settle with a deep "thwump" sound (very unnerving but a good sign of strengthening if it happens as you are digging)

- Dig a low tunnel at ground level and hollow out the inside. Put on minimal clothing and wear with rain gear, as you will get wet from the outside by laying in snow to dig, and from within by sweat. Form a smooth dome on the inside, not less than than 8 inches thick on top, gradually becoming thicker farther down (short sticks stuck in the dome porcupine style may help gauge thickness). Allow 45 minutes to an hour for this part. Punch a fist size hole part way down for ventilation.

- Leave a slightly elevated sleeping platform inside, which allows coldest air to drain out the door tunnel. Form a door out of snow blocks, or some kind of covering material (blanket).

I have spent nights in -30 degree outside temps in these. The heat from two small candles kept me toasty with the inside temp at +25F. Did a great demonstration for Boy Scout Gawasa/Okpik winter training during one of those -30 nights. No one in their properly constructed snow shelter was cold, but those in shelters they built of half snow-half tents or tarps ended up going into a heated building before the night was over.