Group Aims to Save Rattlesnakes in Adirondacks

[qam1]

News Release from the Center for North American Herpetology

http://www.cnah.org/news.asp?id=184

Looks like they (The Adirondack Council) are trying to prevent a Mountain Bike trail around Split Rock Mountain & the Champlain Palisades in fear of the bikes running over the snakes.
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[kurtteej]

What on earth is the reasoning behind that? I love the statement "losing 1 or 2 would be tragic". This is just rediculous and really shouldn't waste anyone's time.

I'm definitely a nature lover (otherwise, why would i be on this forum). I tend to have a hikers mentality [rather than a hunters mentality] when I'm in the woods (which means i generally leave no trace). But saving rattlesnakes is a bit odd to me.

KT

[sacco]

kurt, i think the idea behind the "1 or 2 would be tragic" line is because there are so few left in the ADKs.

what is odd about saving rattlesnakes?

i'm not saying i'm for or against this new trail b/c i don't think anyone knows at this point if it would be harmful to the rattlers.

i do think it is an extremely worthwhile cause to find out if this proposed trail would be harmful or not.

[kurtteej]

Didnt mean to "rattle" anyones feathers. [hee hee]. I just don't see the merit of saving 1 or 2 rattle snakes -- at the expense of probably hundreds of people enjoying a great bike ride at a great vista of a big beautiful lake. Sounds like a waste of time and a waste of money.

The money would be better spent purchasing more land to designate as wilderness.

[redhawk]

Didnt mean to "rattle" anyones feathers. [hee hee]. I just don't see the merit of saving 1 or 2 rattle snakes -- at the expense of probably hundreds of people enjoying a great bike ride at a great vista of a big beautiful lake. Sounds like a waste of time and a waste of money.

The money would be better spent purchasing more land to designate as wilderness.

Actually most animals aren't too crazy about humans either and don't see any merit to their miserable existance, so perhaps we should just let humansbecome endangered.

I'm sorry, if you don't see the merit of saving one or two of anything, then all the logic in the world won't make you understand.

[sacco]

no feathers rattled here.

like i said,
i don't think anyone knows at this point if it would be harmful to the rattlers.
i do think it is an extremely worthwhile cause to find out if this proposed trail would be harmful or not.

[kurtteej]

I understand. I just think that spending any effort to see if 1 or 2 will be affected is rediculous. Now if the entire population were to be wiped out or 1/2 or 1/4 of what was left, that would be a very different proposition.

The problem is that 1 or 2 makes everyone sound a little nuts and a little extreme. A bolt of lightning can kill 8 or 10 if they're sunning themselves, so if 1 or 2 get run over by a bike tire -- most people will feel 'so what'.

Any time someone does 'a study', a friend gets a chunk of cash and then does whatever the political hack wants him to do in the first place, that's why it's a waste of money.

[Riosacandaga]

The Starfish parable: "It won't make a difference !" ... "It will to that ONE. "

[Judgeh]

I believe it's called the "balance of nature". Humankind, for all of its intelligence and wisdom, seems unable to comprehend that.

[sacco]

that's one of my all time favorite parables!

[fvrwld]

I'm against any trails that get even close to a rattler like this:

[Gray Ghost]

I assume you are referring to just bike trails, fvrwld, because there are already quite a few trails that go right through rattlesnake country.

To be honest, I think that rattlesnakes are more widespread than people, including the DEC, realize. There is a population, albeit a small one, in Westport area along Lake Champlain (I can't think of the name of the mountain off the top of my head). Of course the most are in the Tounge Range, but they are not exclusive to that range. Some have been seen on Rogers Rock, and some have even been reported to be on the islands of Lake George. Here's the kicker: a baby rattler was found in the school cafeteria where I work, which is twenty-five miles from the Tongue Range. And when I was probably eight or nine years old, my grandmother killed a small rattler in Crown Point, which is a good half hour to forty minutes from the Tongue at least. (Yeah, she's a pretty tough lady...)

All in all, though, I think they are still a delicate species, and wiping out one or two IS a big deal. One or two is a much higher percentage of their population than one would realize. -GG

[sacco]

GG, i think val is only kidding - pretending to be scared of that ittybittycutsiewootsie harmless reptile.

[redhawk]

I understand. I just think that spending any effort to see if 1 or 2 will be affected is rediculous. Now if the entire population were to be wiped out or 1/2 or 1/4 of what was left, that would be a very different proposition.

The problem is that 1 or 2 makes everyone sound a little nuts and a little extreme. A bolt of lightning can kill 8 or 10 if they're sunning themselves, so if 1 or 2 get run over by a bike tire -- most people will feel 'so what'.

Any time someone does 'a study', a friend gets a chunk of cash and then does whatever the political hack wants him to do in the first place, that's why it's a waste of money.

Problem is that using the excuse that "saving one or two" doesn't make any difference or that it's too expensive, allows the "one or two" to eventually number in the hundreds or thousands or leads to eventual extinction.

There are two major problems with all of this.

First, Humans are the only ones to decide. the creatures don't get a post, assumingly because we are "more intelligent".

Second, Most humans automatically base their decision on cost or their own comforts or wants (Note I did not say needs!). Being as self centered, greed driven and uncaring as most humans are, acts will always be rationalized to make the final decision fit the want of the humans.

If anyone needs proof, I hold up "Manifest Destiny" which was this countrys policy during the nineteenth century. The argument that Americans had a "God Given right to use whatever means necessary to settle this country allowed Americans to steal, lie, cheat, murder the original nations here and to also kill millions of Bison to help to subjigate those nations. See. one or two less indians wouldn't make a difference.......

Unless of course you happened to be Indian!

So, in the philosophy of the human mind, it's justified if certain species become extinct or are killed, or have their habitant taken away in the name of progress.

The fact that humankind is going to destroy those resources in the long run, sheerly for theit own comfort, recreation or entertainment shouldn't matter at all.

So by all means, kill the rattlers before some self serving human gets bit by a "problem snake" in the course of his or her pursuit of happiness.

Radical?? Might seem so at first glimpse but if you think about it honestly, it's the truth.

[fvrwld]

GG, i think val is only kidding - pretending to be scared of that ittybittycutsiewootsie harmless reptile.

yep...I was just tryin' to be funny.

I would like to see what would happen if a bike ran over that monster. I don't think it would be the snake that got killed.

That is a 114lb rattle snake that was found in Alabama.