Pentax K10D or Canon Digital Rebel XTi?

[Edelweiss]

Pico - I bow in complete humility to your photographic awesomeness.

Thanks for all the great info too!

Ditto to Kevin's comment, Pico. So much to learn........ thanks for taking the time to post!

[pico23]

Thanks Kevin...just shooting what I love, and trying to make the best images I can. I've enjoyed looking at your site, some nice work on there as well.

....

A 2GB gets about 123 RAW (so about 60ish for a 1GB) in DNG format. A few more in PEF. As noted above quality is exactly the same, PEFs are compressed (losslessly like a PC Zip file) so they take longer to clear the buffer (as the engine compresses them) but also take up less space on the card.

So for action, shoot DNG. For static shots where you probably won't fill the buffer anyway, it's your choice. I just leave it on DNG unless I really feel like I'm running out of card space way too fast. Or if I was on an extended wilderness trip, I'd probably shoot PEF as well.

Oh, one quirk. I think the camera always shows the shots remaining in DNG. So when you put a card in it shows 123 (or 60 for 1GB) no matter what format you save to. but as you get close to the end of the card space in PEF you get more shots. This would be a problem if it was the other way around.

[ADKnative]

ADKNative... I picked up the Pentax K10 with the 18-55mm lens kit. It includes a free 1 GB SD card. I also added the Pentax SMCP-DA 50-200mm lens.

About how many photos can I expect to fit on a 1 GB card while shooting in RAW mode?

[Kevin]

Pico - I bow in complete humility to your photographic awesomeness.

Thanks for all the great info too!

[johnstp]

ADKNative... I picked up the Pentax K10 with the 18-55mm lens kit. It includes a free 1 GB SD card. I also added the Pentax SMCP-DA 50-200mm lens.

I purchased the items from Abes of Maine and paid $978 with free shipping. The rebate pico23 mentioned gives you $100 back on the camera and $25 on the extra lens (as long as you purchase it at the same time). So, grand total - $853!

[ADKnative]

Good advice on the memory cards, I was about to buy a 4GB card.. I will buy four 1 GB cards now.

I think I will stick with the kit lens for now and upgrade later, since I think it will suit my needs for the time being. Thanks again for the advice and pointers.

[pico23]

Thanks for all the great replies! I wasn't expecting so much information but it is definately helpful. I think I will go with the Pentax, since pico23 has made a very strong case for it, and it seems like the camera for me.

What do you think of the lens that is included with the camera? After spending $700+ on the camera and a big memory card, I'm afraid I won't have much left over for lenses right away.

The kit lens is actually pretty good. And it does have a metal mount unlike the other brands, so it should last a while. Actually, the reviews of it compared to the other kit lenses were that it was the best optics and build for a kit lens.

It's small and light and gives a good general focal length for outdoors, from (effectively) 28mm to 80mm, it's essentially the old "normal" zoom.

That said, I don't own it. Mainly because I'd probably have never used it much since I already had plenty of glass.

If you have a little more to spend the Pentax 16-45 f/4 is a nice lens (definite upgrade over the kit), gives you a 24mm wide end (which is about as wide as you'd mostly need before things start looking weird) and has a rebate. And a step above that is the DA* 16-50 2.8 which is weather sealed but about 2x the price of the 16-45.

Pentax has a Brighten The Holidays Rebate going on which does me no good but it might help you out. It's pretty extensive, although I didn't look closely at it.

Just a word of advice on the memory. Don't go with SDHC. Even if the X speed is the same as non SDHC it will be slower. I believe it has something to do with packet size. Personally, I like the Transcend 150X 2GB cards. They are/were cheap, and work perfectly. They've actually gone up in price (significantly) but I got about 4 of them for $20 a piece last year. I also had a 1GB 80X Transcend that worked great...too bad I lost it, thankfully it was only $10. The advantage of smaller cards is they are faster, and if one does fail or get corrupted you still have options and all your eggs aren't in one basket.

[ADKnative]

Thanks for all the great replies! I wasn't expecting so much information but it is definately helpful. I think I will go with the Pentax, since pico23 has made a very strong case for it, and it seems like the camera for me.

What do you think of the lens that is included with the camera? After spending $700+ on the camera and a big memory card, I'm afraid I won't have much left over for lenses right away.

[Spitzna]

I just recently got a olympus e-510 and love it so far. Not to big and very light and they also make a e-410 which i believe is the smallest slr out there.

[pico23]

What is the approximate size and weight of the K10D? Something that you wouldn't mind toting around on a 50-mile backpacking trip?

It's significantly bigger than the Rebel and D40. slightly smaller than the D200/30D and a little heavier than the D80.

This is actually the first larger body Pentax has made in about 10 years. My old PZ-1P film body was about the same size, as was the MZ-S another pro spec film SLR that followed in the late 1990s. Since then they've only produced compact DSLRs which has always been the niche market.

The K10D is bigger to accomodate the sensor shake reduction and also because of the weather sealing.

Would I take it on a 50 mile backpack? Yeah. The battery life is over 700 shots (conservatively, I've peaked at over 1,000 as have many others). On the flip side, I used my 6MP ist D this summer paddling because my dry bucket space was at a premium.

Of course an advantage is Pentax still prides itself on making smaller lenses. The DA limited primes are all pancakes. 3 of them cover 21mm-70mm and makes for a great high quality hiking setup, or the 16-50 DA* weather sealed will suit most needs and gives you a lens that you can shoot in the rain as well (of course, any well built lens can handle a bit of drizzel or light rain). The DA Primes are digital specific but the 40mm and 70mm actually work perfectly on film cameras as long as they have body aperture control which would be most made in the last 15 years.

[Bill I.]

What is the approximate size and weight of the K10D? Something that you wouldn't mind toting around on a 50-mile backpacking trip?

[Hobbitling]

it means the old lenses still work on the new cameras. sometimes the companies intentionally make new cameras incompatable with their old lenses. Then if you upgrade you have to buy all new lenses, which is where the real profits are. when you are first starting out it doesnt make a difference, because you havn't invested in all those lenses yet, but if they've screwed their customers before, be aware they are likely to do it again.

I gotta say you make a good case for the pentax.

[twochordcool]

Pardon my ignorance but what is "backward-compatible"?

[pico23]

The K10D isn't the digital rebels camera class. It's given reviewers a headache because it was priced with the D80/Rebel but spec'd with the 30D and the D200.

And it's definitely not the D40X competition.

The mere fact that it's price leads you to believe it is in the same class should give you and idea of the quality Pentax put into it. And advantage of course of not catering to the professional photojournalist market is you don't have to hold back features so people are forced to buy a camera in the next price range.

Pentax really threw the bigger brands a big curve ball which you'll notice they tried to address. With the 40D for instance which put weather sealing on a sub $4000 canon body for the first time. Before that canon held this feature for only it's 1D series.

The only two areas the K10D lagged were frame rate and maximum mechanical X sync. In every other area including build it surpassed the 30D and D200. Considering I shoot pro hockey and baseball with it, the legitimate 3fps and large buffer are adequate for sports. (edited to note, I use a 2 body system for sports and PJ work. I with a wider angle lens and one with a telephoto, for hockey I use a Nikon D1H with a 300mm and 180mm lens. I use the K10D with lenses from 20mm-135mm).

As far as the image quality, while the JPEGs have been called soft (others say properly undersharp, see the agility trials photo below to see a JPEG example) the RAW files have gained huge acclaim as being the best of the 10MP cameras. I noted in another thread the importance of not shooting JPEG to get the most out of any camera. Out of 6000 actuations on my K10D, I've only taken about 300 JPEGs most during a single day of agility trials shooting.

Recently a review site noted that the K10D RAW files were superior to the 40D. Curiously the K10D is almost 1 year old and the Canon 40D just came out.

THe K10D is the ideal camera for most people on this board. It's fully weather sealed, built like a tank, and image stabilized. Oh, and the image quality is exceptional. Also, 2 weather sealed DA* lenses are already at market covering 16-135mm.

I'm almost finished with my review of the K10D for a photo site. Hopefully it will be up by the monday deadline. The Limited lens series review should also be up shortly.

BTW, for what it's worth, I don't work for Pentax, or own stock. I actually shoot both Nikon and Pentax SLRs and I use all different types of digital compacts, including Canon, Kodak, Leica/Panasonic, HP, and Pentax. The truth is I probably wouldn't be even using Pentax if my Dad hadn't shot it.

Pentax SLR's have always offered high value for the money. And while Pentax is lesser known for 35mm, open up an issue of National Geographic or Outdoor Photographer. Most of the film photos in those mags were taken with the Pentax 645 or 67 medium format cameras. They know photography even if 35mm photographers don't know Pentax.

A little diversity of the camera that goes beyond landscapes:

Pentax K10D, ISO1250, Pentax 50-135 2.8SDM weather sealed lens





K10D, ISO800, Tokina 80-200 2.8 w/1.4x TC





Pentax K10D, 35mm T&S, 30seconds @ ISO 100



K10D, 80-200 2.8 @ISO 200



K10D, 30 seconds, ISO100, f/16. Perhaps the finisest example of what this camera and a razor sharp Pentax (FA35mm 2.0) prime lens can do. Look at the detail in the capitol building.


Ever hear of a image stabilized Tilt and Shift lens? Thats right, impossible, but this was taken with one . A little abstract of the plaza on a very windy day where even the 11lb tripod had the shakes.



Bigger version...lots of detail.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/210/4...c0be0848_o.jpg

K10D, Tokina 28-70 2.8 ISO 640.



K10D, ISO 100, 3 exposures, hand blended, 8, 15, 30 seconds at f/11.


Yeah, my wife wonders about me sometimes, it was 10am, lighting was still low and even, street closed off for a fair, why not lay on the ground to get the shot...K10D, 10mm, ISO100.




One of those shots that just happens...K10D, ISO 800.

[johnstp]

Took these photos today with my Pentax K10

Shot in RAW. Didn't do any processing other than to save it as a .jpg so I could post them here.



Playing with depth of field...