Grizzly Man-Timothy Treadwell

[adkdremn]

Just wondering if anyone caught the episode of Dateline last night that featured a story on Timothy Treadwell. This was the first I had heard of him. He's a guy who spent thirteen summers camped out in Alaska in an area he referred to as the "grizzly maze". He was constantly with grizzlies in very close proximity to them and usually had his camera set up taping his experiences. He seemed to be a bit of a kook and some said was trying to turn into a bear himself. The last summer he was there was the summer of 2003 when he took his girlfriend with him. The night before they were to leave the were attacked and killed by a grizzly. Oddly enough the camera was turned on, however the lens cap was not removed. Imaginably so, it's apparently quite gruesome, his best friend who now has the camera and tape has never listened to it herself. They showed the Dateline producer listening to it last night and it brought him to tears.
There's a documentary that just came out...www.grizzlyman.com.
The photography and footage they showed last night is quite stunning, but it just goes to show no matter how close you might think you are to an animal there's still an inherent danger no to be messed with. Timothy Treadwell seemed quite arrogant and was sure his friends, the grizzlies, would never attack him. I guess I posted this just to hear other's thought and if anyone had any other information on this guy.

[CloudNine]

I saw the Dateline piece, adkdremn - both fascinating and horrifying at the same time. I was left with the impression that his girlfriend had no idea what she was getting herself into - she trusted him (misguidedly believing he had more knowledge (and common sense???) than he did). I hadn't heard of him before, and would watch Grizzly Man if I happened by it, but not sure I would seek it out - I, too, thought he seemed amazingly reckless (especially with his girlfriend's life) and arrogant, as well as a touch...okay, completely... over the edge - into the beyond - he lost it, it seems, at some point out there....
My heart goes out to the families, though.

[adkdremn]

Yeah, the girlfriend had no clue what she was getting herself into. You realized that right when they showed her sitting within a few feet of a mother and two cubs while they were hunting for and eating fish.

[Rik]

I have read his book and also seen interviews with him but I didn't see the show last night. If you look at his whole life (he was an addict) it didn't seem completely reckless to me. He definitely pushed the envelop but the info he gathered was rather unique. Sad what ended up happening especially to his girlfriend. When he wrote the book he was doing this solo but she also made a choice/decision to go with him so I don't find him totally responsible. There is no doubt he loved these animals.

[Rik]

Yeah, the girlfriend had no clue what she was getting herself into. You realized that right when they showed her sitting within a few feet of a mother and two cubs while they were hunting for and eating fish.
__________________

I believe that one of his theories was that bears were much less aggressive in an environment where there was an abundance of food. (less competition). He observed them in several different locations and noted that they were less protective if the food was plentiful. He also believed juvenile males to be the most unpredictable and therefore most dangerous. He had done this a number of times without incident. Some would say it was just a matter of time but I think he was skilled in reading their behavior. Maybe the dynamics of another person along with their fears and anxieties as well as her not being as skilled as he was, contributed to this incident. I would suggest reading the book for more info and less reporter slant.

[adkdremn]

I would suggest reading the book for more info and less reporter slant.

Good suggestion, what is the book called? I'd like to check it out. They did say that the bear that killed him and his girlfriend was an older male bear about 20 years old. The pilot who went to pick them up had an encounter with this bear while looking for them. When he flew away he saw the bear eating meat off of a human rib cage. Rangers later came back and killed the bear and Timothy's reamains as well as the girlfriends were found inside the bear.
Maybe he was skilled in reading their behavior, but I don't think you can ever fully understand a wild animal's behavior. If he was so skilled, why didn't he know when to get out of there?

[Rik]

Maybe he was skilled in reading their behavior, but I don't think you can ever fully understand a wild animal's behavior. If he was so skilled, why didn't he know when to get out of there?

I think he would probably agree with you about never fully understanding their behavior but maybe enough to keep himself safe. I'm only guessing but I think the dynamics of a second human there may have contributed to the incident. For example, maybe for his own safety he knew what to do but either his anxiety regarding his girlfriend and/or her anxiety created a situation he couldn't manage. As to why didn't he get out of there. To where? He was literally dropped off by plane in an area with a huge grizzly population. His desire was to immerse himself in their habitat. I will get the book title to you when I am home as I don't remember the exact title.

[kwc]

here's the book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/asin/0345426053/002-1660958-5952853

I remember reading an article about him, maybe in Outside magazine or something like that ...

read the reviews on the amazon link ... here's what one reader said, "But it isn't long after one begins the book before one realizes that just beneath the surface this is actually a book about a man with a death wish and all the talk about bears (which can make for an adequate "bear read", mind you) is really a series of descriptions of this sad individual's numerous attempts to force a horrible death upon himself."

That was the impression I got from the article I'd read.

[Rik]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/as...660958-5952853

I remember reading an article about him, maybe in Outside magazine or something like that ...

read the reviews on the amazon link ... here's what one reader said, "But it isn't long after one begins the book before one realizes that just beneath the surface this is actually a book about a man with a death wish and all the talk about bears (which can make for an adequate "bear read", mind you) is really a series of descriptions of this sad individual's numerous attempts to force a horrible death upon himself."

That was the impression I got from the article I'd read.

I think he may have known he would eventually be attacked but I didn't get the impression he had a death wish. That idea kind of conflicts with the idea that he was arrogant about what he could get away with. Like I said before he definitely pushed the envelop but we need some of those people out there. To me it is a beautiful part of the human spirit. The same arguements could be made of some mountaineers, divers, soldiers, astronauts,...I don't think the pilots of the recent Space Shuttle voyage would be said to have a death wish yet they certainly put themselve in a risky situation.

[redhawk]

I think that if one is around Grizzlies, or bears of any kind for that matter, there is always the danger that something can go wrong. It's the same as being around humans, something can go wrong.

I think in the end, it comes down to if the reward of being in the company of bears is worth the risk of being killed or injured by a bear.

As for myself, I say, Yes, Yes it is.

[starbaby]

It is important to realize that a general principle is not necessarily a universal principle. Sure, Treadwell may have been right that bears aren’t aggressive if there is plenty of food around. But that is only generally true in most situations. Moreover, is this really an outstanding discovery ? All species (including man) are generally non-agressive if all of their needs are met. Even if this is true, it can’t be relied upon as a universal principle guaranteeing your safety at all times in all situations.

What happens if the bear concludes that the "plenty of food that is around" happens to be YOU? Predators are always aggressive towards their prey. Their prey always dies. It doesn't take a great leap of faith to assert that sometimes a grizzly may prefer the biped over the fish, even if there are plenty of fishes. This means that, as someone already said, it is only a matter of time.

I also read of him and his vision several years ago. Treadwell did state that he wanted to become a grizzly, in a manner of speaking. I guess he got his wish, but perhaps not in the manner that he expected. Both his death and his friend’s death is a tragedy, but for different reasons.

SB

[Rik]

It is important to realize that a general principle is not necessarily a universal principle. Sure, Treadwell may have been right that bears aren’t aggressive if there is plenty of food around. But that is only generally true in most situations. Moreover, is this really an outstanding discovery ? All species (including man) are generally non-agressive if all of their needs are met. Even if this is true, it can’t be relied upon as a universal principle guaranteeing your safety at all times in all situations.

Who said anything about "a universal principle guarenteeing your safety at all times in all situations"?

My point about the food is just that the risk may be less (not gone but less) than it would appear from a glance. Or from reading something like "they were next to a mama with cubs near food".

[starbaby]

I believe I was reacting to this:

I believe that one of his theories was that bears were much less aggressive in an environment where there was an abundance of food. (less competition).

My critique was how he applied his theory. I have no disagreement with you.

He may have thought that they were "less" aggressive. But by moving and living in their habitat (he interacted with them quite closely), in order to be safe in that situation, you must ALWAYS be safe.

His grisly death is the de facto proof that his life was relying on something that wasn't as true as he needed it to be.

SB

[redhawk]

His grisly death is the de facto proof that his life was relying on something that wasn't as true as he needed it to be.

SB

Or maybe his life ended the way he preferred it to. I don't think anyone can judge what his thoughts really were.

I remember the last line from the movie, Legends of the Fall..... "Tristian was killed by a bear, it was a good death"

Some of us, as Thoreau said, "March to the beat of a different drummer".

For all we know his death may have happened exactly as it was scripted in his mind. Many of us have death wishes and are not concious of it.

[Ordin Aryguy]

Timothy Treadwell had passion. Admirable passion. He had unwavering belief in what he was doing. He had focus, he had vision, he had PURPOSE. Whether we choose to believe that all those traits fit our, or Webster's, definitions is up to us. To him, there was nothing else.

He died where he wanted to live. Isn't that the best place of all to die?

Whether or not I think he was misguided or outright dillusional is bending his life to fit our definitions. Hardly fair to fault a man for believing so strongly, even if we want to think that he's simply tilting at windmills.

The bears would have eaten all of us on the first or second day. The fact that he lived his life for many years among the bears speaks loudly of a relationship with them that we could never have.

Yes, when I watch the tapes it's hard not to think that he was slightly off kilter, but at the same time I'm incredibly envious. He freekin' lived among the bears year after year!! How cool is that?!! Come on folks, that's awesome.

At the end of my father's funeral, my mom played a CD of Sinatra singing "My Way." Like it or not, my dad always did it his way... Treadwell also did it his way. I won't judge him, either.


Ordin