National Geographic Adirondack 3D Explorer not compatible

[Marty From SLC]

I purchased a Magellan Triton only to be told it is not compatible with Magellan GPS units. Can anyone suggest a unit/brand that is compatible? Perhaps a Garmin? Thanks in advance!

[lumberzac]

You should be able to upload waypoints and routes, but not maps from NG. I know both Garmin and Magellan can only use their own mapping software to upload topo maps on thier units.

[redhawk]

I purchased a Magellan Triton only to be told it is not compatible with Magellan GPS units. Can anyone suggest a unit/brand that is compatible? Perhaps a Garmin? Thanks in advance!

Magellan has recently come out with one model that allows the uploading of MAPS from National Geographic software.

I don't know which series of NG software it is compatable with. My guess would be the State series and possibly the national parks. Not sure about Adirondack Explorer 3d.

You need to contact Magellan and find out which unit uses the NG maps and which series of software it uses.

Hopefully enough people will buy the Magellan Unit to encourage them to make all their future units NG map compatable and force garmin to follow suit.

Because, the propietary software sucks and is inaccurate to boot.

As Zac said, you can still use the NG to upload and download waypoints, routes and tracks, but not the maps, except on the new Magellan model.

Hawk

[timetohike]

I believe it is the Magellan Trinton that can import the National Geographic Topo maps. I don't think the NG ADK 3D works on the Triton, but even it did you will be happier with the National Geographic Topo.

While planning a trip I used the NG ADK 3D and saved the trail route to a gpx. I then imported that track into both NG Topo and the Garmin Mapsource Topo. The track of the trail from ADK 3D differed a lot from the trail shown on the maps in NG Topo and Garmin Mapsource Topo. I then traced the trail shown in Garmin Topo and saved it as a gpx and imported it into NG Topo. The track of the trail created by Garmin Mapsource was substantially the same as the trail depicted in NG Topo.

Overall, NG Topo is a the best of the three products. Garmin totp however is needed to put maps on a garmin gps. NG ADK 3D has some info on its maps not found in the other two (like locations of lean-tos, color of the disks marking the DEC trails, length of trails, etc.), so it is a nice planning tool. That's why I ended up with all three.

[Marty From SLC]

National Geographic Adirondack 3D Explorer not compatible

Magellan has recently come out with one model that allows the uploading of MAPS from National Geographic software.

I don't know which series of NG software it is compatable with. My guess would be the State series and possibly the national parks. Not sure about Adirondack Explorer 3d.

Hawk

Finally found out the answers. "National Geographic USA & State" maps software are compatible with Magellan Triton 400 and above (with SD Memory card). "N. G. Adirondack Park Explorer 3D" does NOT work with GPS handhelds, even though Magellan states it does. Its just a different way of looking at the area, as seen in so many cool contributions here.

[Bill I.]

The track of the trail from ADK 3D differed a lot from the trail shown on the maps in NG Topo and Garmin Mapsource Topo. I then traced the trail shown in Garmin Topo and saved it as a gpx and imported it into NG Topo. The track of the trail created by Garmin Mapsource was substantially the same as the trail depicted in NG Topo.

That's because both the Garmin mapping software and the NG Topo software are both derived from the USGS base maps.

I know there are digitized versions of the USGS quads in the public domain, and as far as I can tell Garmin and NG Topo are just converting this information into their own formats. But any inaccuracies in the source information (USGS) will be replicated in the spin-offs. It's not like all of these GPS mapping companies conducted their own independent topographical surveys before making their maps.

So the fact that these two products agree is by no means an indicator of their accuracy or inaccuracy. They simply have the same "parent".

As for the NG Explorer 3D, this is a digitized version of the NG Trails Illustrated paper maps, and the trail information on those maps seems to have had more human intervention in its development. This of course can be both good and bad. I know several agencies had input into the design of those maps.

Not that I'm knocking any of these products, because I own a few of them myself. But I heard an account recently about a guy following a pre-loaded GPS track. When the trail quite visibly turned in one direction, this guy insisted on going in another direction because that's where the track went. (Colden46 can correct me if I got the details wrong.)

And based on my own personal analysis of map accuracy in the Adirondacks, I wouldn't be surprised if this scenario happens frequently throughout the park.

[redhawk]

That's because both the Garmin mapping software and the NG Topo software are both derived from the USGS base maps.

I know there are digitized versions of the USGS quads in the public domain, and as far as I can tell Garmin and NG Topo are just converting this information into their own formats. But any inaccuracies in the source information (USGS) will be replicated in the spin-offs. It's not like all of these GPS mapping companies conducted their own independent topographical surveys before making their maps.

So the fact that these two products agree is by no means an indicator of their accuracy or inaccuracy. They simply have the same "parent".

As for the NG Explorer 3D, this is a digitized version of the NG Trails Illustrated paper maps, and the trail information on those maps seems to have had more human intervention in its development. This of course can be both good and bad. I know several agencies had input into the design of those maps.

Not that I'm knocking any of these products, because I own a few of them myself. But I heard an account recently about a guy following a pre-loaded GPS track. When the trail quite visibly turned in one direction, this guy insisted on going in another direction because that's where the track went. (Colden46 can correct me if I got the details wrong.)

And based on my own personal analysis of map accuracy in the Adirondacks, I wouldn't be surprised if this scenario happens frequently throughout the park.

I don't believe that garmin and NG are using the USGS base maps.

On my Garmin Mapsource Topo, Raquette falls is shown six miles from it's actual location. In NG it's dead on.

DeLorme, at least the earlier versions used the same base maps as garmin because they had the same six+ mile error with raquette Falls (and the upper and lower falls) as Garmin.

If you were to believe the garmin software, Raquette is only about 1/2 mile from the trailhead at Coreys.

Hawk

[Bill I.]

I've been using the Garmin National Parks East software, and I have not noticed anything like that. In fact, I was at Raquette Falls this winter and everything was where it should be, both on the ground and on my GPS display.

BUT, although the Garmin maps don't LOOK like the USGS maps at first glance, that's just a superficial difference. The Garmin maps have showed me lean-tos that have not existed in 40 years--the same as the USGS maps--and omits newer trails that are also omitted on the USGS maps. And when the USGS maps show a trail going to the right around a hill, so do the Garmin maps--even though I can see for myself that it goes to the left.

Which is why I theorize that all Garmin did was take the USGS information and make it look different. Otherwise, we would be bumping into Garmin survey crews mapping and measuring the Adirondacks, right? Because if they aren't using the existing government survey data, what would they be using?

[redhawk]

I've been using the Garmin National Parks East software, and I have not noticed anything like that. In fact, I was at Raquette Falls this winter and everything was where it should be, both on the ground and on my GPS display.

BUT, although the Garmin maps don't LOOK like the USGS maps at first glance, that's just a superficial difference. The Garmin maps have showed me lean-tos that have not existed in 40 years--the same as the USGS maps--and omits newer trails that are also omitted on the USGS maps. And when the USGS maps show a trail going to the right around a hill, so do the Garmin maps--even though I can see for myself that it goes to the left.

Which is why I theorize that all Garmin did was take the USGS information and make it look different. Otherwise, we would be bumping into Garmin survey crews mapping and measuring the Adirondacks, right? Because if they aren't using the existing government survey data, what would they be using?

Thats the National parks series which are based on the 24k usgs maps.

Come over and let me show you the regular Garmin topo and you''ll see for yourself that it is neither taken from a USGS base map, nor is it accurate, at least as far as the 3 falls on the raquete river are concerned.

I'll also show you the deLormere if I still have it and you'll see thay are identical.

Hawk

[Marty From SLC]

Gps

I've been using the Garmin National Parks East software, and I have not noticed anything like that. In fact, I was at Raquette Falls this winter and everything was where it should be, both on the ground and on my GPS display.

BUT, although the Garmin maps don't LOOK like the USGS maps at first glance, that's just a superficial difference. The Garmin maps have showed me lean-tos that have not existed in 40 years--the same as the USGS maps--and omits newer trails that are also omitted on the USGS maps. And when the USGS maps show a trail going to the right around a hill, so do the Garmin maps--even though I can see for myself that it goes to the left.

Which is why I theorize that all Garmin did was take the USGS information and make it look different. Otherwise, we would be bumping into Garmin survey crews mapping and measuring the Adirondacks, right? Because if they aren't using the existing government survey data, what would they be using?

When I receive my National Geographic NYS/NJ software and install it on my Magellon Triton 400, I'll let you know how successful it goes. Seems everyone uses Garmin. I've had NO LUCK with Magellan support an any of the countries I have been directed to. Wish me luck.

[Bill I.]

When I receive my National Geographic NYS/NJ software and install it on my Magellon Triton 400, I'll let you know how successful it goes. Seems everyone uses Garmin. I've had NO LUCK with Magellan support an any of the countries I have been directed to. Wish me luck.

Just to give you a heads up: The USGS base maps for the northwestern Adirondacks, where you will be exploring, haven't been updated since the 1960s. And all of the idiosyncrasies from the USGS maps will be found on any mapping software derived from them. For instance, Wolf Pond and Sand Lake are on separate USGS quad sheets, and only one of them shows the trail between the lakes. Likewise, my Garmin software shows only 75% of the trail, with the cutoff point being the boundary between the USGS quad sheets.

So when you find a situation like that, it's not necessarily the software manufacturer's fault.

Come over and let me show you the regular Garmin topo and you''ll see for yourself that it is neither taken from a USGS base map, nor is it accurate, at least as far as the 3 falls on the raquete river are concerned.

Hawk

Is that the 100k Garmin maps? I do have that set, but I have only used it in the one time I needed a GPS outside of the Adirondack Park (where I didn't have coverage with the 24k series).

I just opened up my GPS file for the High Peaks region to review my tracks from the Raquette Falls trip. Everything appears fine in the 24k version, but when I switch to the 100k maps then yes, I do see that all three of the falls now appear on dry land, with the Lower Falls on the opposite bank from the Stony Creek Lean-to. I can see how that would raise some eyebrows.

Is this kind of error common? I notice that terrain contours don't jive too well with lakeshores. They tend to flow freely across one another.

According to the packaging, Garmin considers these maps to be "comparable" to the USGS 100k quads, but if I was the USGS I would be insulted by that. The base maps are much better--contour lines don't jump across lakes for instance. On the USGS 100k quad Raquette Falls is not labeled at all, so that error can't be pinned on them either.

[Neil]

Just to give you a heads up: The USGS base maps for the northwestern Adirondacks, where you will be exploring, haven't been updated since the 1960s.

Therefore, don't trust the map's accuracy with respect to man-made features such as trails and lean-to's. Swamps can be pretty iffy too.

[redhawk]

Just to give you a heads up: The USGS base maps for the northwestern Adirondacks, where you will be exploring, haven't been updated since the 1960s. And all of the idiosyncrasies from the USGS maps will be found on any mapping software derived from them. For instance, Wolf Pond and Sand Lake are on separate USGS quad sheets, and only one of them shows the trail between the lakes. Likewise, my Garmin software shows only 75% of the trail, with the cutoff point being the boundary between the USGS quad sheets.

So when you find a situation like that, it's not necessarily the software manufacturer's fault.



Is that the 100k Garmin maps? I do have that set, but I have only used it in the one time I needed a GPS outside of the Adirondack Park (where I didn't have coverage with the 24k series).

I just opened up my GPS file for the High Peaks region to review my tracks from the Raquette Falls trip. Everything appears fine in the 24k version, but when I switch to the 100k maps then yes, I do see that all three of the falls now appear on dry land, with the Lower Falls on the opposite bank from the Stony Creek Lean-to. I can see how that would raise some eyebrows.

Is this kind of error common? I notice that terrain contours don't jive too well with lakeshores. They tend to flow freely across one another.

According to the packaging, Garmin considers these maps to be "comparable" to the USGS 100k quads, but if I was the USGS I would be insulted by that. The base maps are much better--contour lines don't jump across lakes for instance. On the USGS 100k quad Raquette Falls is not labeled at all, so that error can't be pinned on them either.

Yep it's the 100k maps and the best way to describe them is well, they suck.

They're actually OK IN the gps, but for trip planning, etc. No way. NG and Terrain navigator are the way to go. The 24K maps in their national park series are fine, but that leaves a lot of area uncovered.

To be honest, I haven't found any other blatant errors in the 100k mapsource, but since finding that error, I never use it for planning anyway. I use the NG and then upload the waypoints and routes to the garmin with the 100k maps in it. Works OK in the field and on the small screen less detail is probably better.

I suspect they get their base maps from the same place that Delorme get's theirs (at least 5 years ago which is my latest version) because the Look (Sucks!!) and feel as well as the errors are the same.

I'm hoping the ability to loa the NG maps into the trton draws enough business away from garmin to force them to make the same move and get away from their propietary format.

Of course NG has now split NY off the Northeastern US package forcing people to spend $200 instead iof $100 for the same maps.

As for the 3D explore Trailsmart for the Adirondacks, I'm not impressed with that package either. The maps are not seamless among other things.

Hawk

[Marty From SLC]

Gps & Ng

Yep it's the 100k maps and the best way to describe them is well, they suck.

They're actually OK IN the gps, but for trip planning, etc. No way. NG and Terrain navigator are the way to go. The 24K maps in their national park series are fine, but that leaves a lot of area uncovered.

To be honest, I haven't found any other blatant errors in the 100k mapsource, but since finding that error, I never use it for planning anyway. I use the NG and then upload the waypoints and routes to the garmin with the 100k maps in it. Works OK in the field and on the small screen less detail is probably better.

I suspect they get their base maps from the same place that Delorme get's theirs (at least 5 years ago which is my latest version) because the Look (Sucks!!) and feel as well as the errors are the same.

I'm hoping the ability to loa the NG maps into the trton draws enough business away from garmin to force them to make the same move and get away from their propietary format.

Of course NG has now split NY off the Northeastern US package forcing people to spend $200 instead iof $100 for the same maps.

As for the 3D explore Trailsmart for the Adirondacks, I'm not impressed with that package either. The maps are not seamless among other things.

Hawk

Found out the hard way that National Geographics maps do not download to ANY GPS unit other than Magellan Triton and then, I went through three Tiriton's and none of them would even connect to my PC! I just realized that with a Garmin, I still cannot download maps; only waypoints, etc. They do supply a Northeastern mini-SD Chip with the map, but it is at 100000K scale - NOT the USGS 240000K. Magellan was hoping to fill that void with downloadability with N.G. Maps, but companies like REI and EMS are sending them back, due to software problems. Geesh!!! Any other suggestion?

[Marty From SLC]

Gps & Ng

repeat