GPS. Unsportsmanlike?

[Little Rickie]

If this hijacks the thread then will the moderators please move it to the appropriate place.

How many of you have read the ObNav article Mavs is referring to? I think it is excellent and one of the best pieces I've ever read on navigation.

Now keep in mind I have modest Boy Scout training, have little fear of getting lost or not for long, no military training and don't have a GPS...yet.

[Neil]

How many of you have read the ObNav article Mavs is referring to? I think it is excellent and one of the best pieces I've ever read on navigation.

Do you mean THIS article? If so, it was written by a contributer to this very thread.

You print the article, you read it through, carefully. Then you get your map and compass out on the kitchen table and work through the article again. Then you go for an off-trail hike. It worked for me.

[redhawk]

Not sure why you quoted me from six months ago but...

Not sure myself... thought it was a new post, somehow my threads got reversed.

Sorry!

[Little Rickie]

Do you mean THIS article? If so, it was written by a contributer to this very thread.

You print the article, you read it through, carefully. Then you get your map and compass out on the kitchen table and work through the article again. Then you go for an off-trail hike. It worked for me.

Yes. It's excellent. I have printed it, have & will go over it several times. There is alot of good stuff in it with out being wordy or long winded. A simple read through is not enough. My thanks to the author.

[uberTurtle]

Late entry.......

Being a professional navigator (container ships, tankers, survey ships, offshore tugs) and remembering a time before GPS, stumbling across this thread has made me feel a little sad. There was a time when we worked to put down a position. The position that makes me the most proud was 50-60 miles off the coast of South Carolina when I crossed a sun line, a long range radio bearing and a Loran-C TD for a fix (almost 20 years ago). Doesn't sound like much, but it's what I had at the time. The old transit satnav was OK, but only delivered intermittent fixes, with dead reckoning in between. Loran was/is good, but subject to errors of its own and certainly not worldwide. Aside from celestial navigation, we have radar navigation - nothing better than three quick ranges to give you a position. Then came GPS - it's down to the point where I had to reprimand a young third mate a few weeks ago on the way out of Singapore for relying solely on GPS when there was plenty on the radar and visually to use. A lot of this has absolutely nothing to do with hiking, but I'm venting a little Now to the subject at hand........is GPS sporting? Personal opinion - not really. I got into orienteering a few years ago, which has crossed over well with hiking. Even on trails, I find myself "thumbing" the map, keeping track of the terrain features, so I have an idea of what is coming up (or should be coming up!). Working with map and compass is intuitive enough that my 12 year old daughter was off on her own during a ROGAINE (24 hour orienteering event). Sad to say, she beat me as well Ahhh - younger legs and a long run. Anyway - I think that GPS is a plus as long as people use it as a tool and not a crutch. If there's not a map and compass in the pack, people have no business being out any further than the town park. There have been too many instances where people have become disoriented or gone "just a little further." Sometimes with tragic results. Just my 2 cents.

[wildbrookies]

I have to agree with you uberturtle,

I was first introduced to learning the compass and how to orienteer by my Uncle ....he gave me a book on orienteering w/ the compass and I had to take the test at the back of the book, inwhich he corrected and went over it with me...to this day, I`ve yet to use the brand new GPS ,my wife has given me for a present ...I tried to break the news to her softly by saying, I`m sorry , but, the compass is all I know and want to know...I trust it beyond all other devices...it has straightened me out numerous times(one time unfortunately involved my brother, he was very nervous,but, I kept cool and got us straightened out , I think it made him more nervous because he does`nt know how to use one and had to trust my readings during the tough bushwack)..with and mostly without any companions with me...as a matter of fact, I probably would`nt even venture very far into the woods without first being taught how to shoot points with a compass...my uncle said, if I did`nt learn the ways of the compass , I would`nt be hunting with him....I like to orienteer at home with the topo....its fun using it on a topo map , shooting points along a trail that you are planning on hiking, so, like you said,gives you an idea of what to expect before you go....trails don`t always go straight ,they twist and turn , changing directions all the time, so knowing alittle about those directions ahead of time has got to help..

I`m sure theres alot of hikers out there that are going to disagree with us...saying the GPS is very accurate and an excellant positioning device and absolutely swear by it and ....it is a all that.....but, what would happen if by some unknown reason, you are turned around in the great northwoods and find that your GPS is`nt working ...then what...I`m sorry , but , without my compass(s), I`d be lost... So, the bottom line is....its great to know the GPS,but one should carry and know how to use the compass, if nothing else, an ease of mind, you never know....

Wb

[Adirondack_hunter]

So I kept thinking about it. My tentative hypothesis: it's more "sporting" to use M&C.

I know I'm late but I figured I'd chime in as well. I think I might agree. Yet I really think it's even more sporting to navigate without either.
I'll continue to use my M&C as well as my easy GPS.
They have made the art of M&C work almost obsolete.

[Connie Bear Orion]

I don't get what Map and compass vs GPS has to do with being sporting.

Yeah a GPS makes things simple.
But no idea why that would mke it not sporting.

[redhawk]

I don't get what Map and compass vs GPS has to do with being sporting.

Yeah a GPS makes things simple.
But no idea why that would mke it not sporting.

There's something we agree on.

[Adirondack_hunter]

M&C useage can be sporting. Ever participated in a M&C course where as time, as well as accuracy are factored in to determine "who wins"? Do this at night and it really becomes critical in how well you interpret as well as count. One screw-up and you are usually done and you totally miss the point or guess the point that scores lower as far as accuracy is concerned. Most Marines have done a basic course similar to this. They learn quickly how important it is to read, count and think clearly when there is no artificail light available.

Besides something such as this, there is no real sport. Now if a GPS were used there may be little sport in this, unless check points were within the minimal range of a GPSes accuracy reading. Cloud cover could affect the course. Then a GPS might be useless and only a compass would work.
I can think of a quick one now where the GPS would be as usefull as a match on Mt. Everest. Go from point A at a bearing of 270 d. to point B1, 100 yds away (here there are 3 -B1's labeled that are only 3 meters apart, all with different color codes) So do you pick B1 red or B1 blue or B1 white? The right one and you score, the wrong one and it sets you up to be off the next pick of points that being the C1 points. Follow me? Anyone in for a land nav. competition this summer?
So in general GPSes are a piece of cake and do make life easier. That is why most of us here probably use one.

[Neil]

I'm leaving tomorrow morning for 4 days of bushwhacking 200 kilometers NW of Montreal. We are leaving the gps at home because the last time we took it it spoiled all the fun of fooling around with the M&C and reading the terrain. It was fun fooling around with the gps too but not quite the same kind of fun or as satisfying as the M&C.

As for the title and OP of this thread, I admit, they suck.

[Connie Bear Orion]

M&C useage can be sporting. Ever participated in a M&C course where as time, as well as accuracy are factored in to determine "who wins"? Do this at night and it really becomes critical in how well you interpret as well as count. One screw-up and you are usually done and you totally miss the point or guess the point that scores lower as far as accuracy is concerned. Most Marines have done a basic course similar to this. They learn quickly how important it is to read, count and think clearly when there is no artificail light available.

Besides something such as this, there is no real sport. Now if a GPS were used there may be little sport in this, unless check points were within the minimal range of a GPSes accuracy reading. Cloud cover could affect the course. Then a GPS might be useless and only a compass would work.
I can think of a quick one now where the GPS would be as usefull as a match on Mt. Everest. Go from point A at a bearing of 270 d. to point B1, 100 yds away (here there are 3 -B1's labeled that are only 3 meters apart, all with different color codes) So do you pick B1 red or B1 blue or B1 white? The right one and you score, the wrong one and it sets you up to be off the next pick of points that being the C1 points. Follow me? Anyone in for a land nav. competition this summer?
So in general GPSes are a piece of cake and do make life easier. That is why most of us here probably use one.

That does not explain why a GPS would be unsporting.

Unsporting to me is stuff like jacking deer. And canned hunts.

Map and compass reading is a great skill to have. And every outdoors person should know how to do it atleast at a basic level.

But still no one has explained why a gps could be unsporting.

[redhawk]

But still no one has explained why a gps could be unsporting.

It's not unsporting.

It's a navigational tool, like a compass, only faster and easier to use along with lots of other features, but not as dependable as a compass and map under certain conditions and not as durable.

There are purists out there who will tell you that the old technology is the only way to go, that anything less is unmanly, or unsportsmanlike or such. To then I say, fine. get rid of the maps & compass as well and forget about latitude and longitude and the rest and use "pure" navigation as man did before the advent of cartography and the compass. Then it will be in it's pure form.

There are other who are concerned that use of the GPS will erode their map and compass skills. I don't think they ever go away, and one can use the map and compass as well as carry a GPS. The GPS just increases the safety odds if used right.

The chief concern of many (myself included) about GPS is that many people may purchase one and venture into the woods who have no navigational skills at all and/or who may not carry the map and compass because they carry the GPS. Or that people may attempt things that are beyond their expertise because they feel secure with a GPS. That is a valid concern.

Personally, I won't go anywhere without my GPS as well as my map and compasses.

[Connie Bear Orion]

It's not unsporting.

It's a navigational tool, like a compass, only faster and easier to use along with lots of other features, but not as dependable as a compass and map under certain conditions and not as durable.

There are purists out there who will tell you that the old technology is the only way to go, that anything less is unmanly, or unsportsmanlike or such. To then I say, fine. get rid of the maps & compass as well and forget about latitude and longitude and the rest and use "pure" navigation as man did before the advent of cartography and the compass. Then it will be in it's pure form.

There are other who are concerned that use of the GPS will erode their map and compass skills. I don't think they ever go away, and one can use the map and compass as well as carry a GPS. The GPS just increases the safety odds if used right.

The chief concern of many (myself included) about GPS is that many people may purchase one and venture into the woods who have no navigational skills at all and/or who may not carry the map and compass because they carry the GPS. Or that people may attempt things that are beyond their expertise because they feel secure with a GPS. That is a valid concern.

Personally, I won't go anywhere without my GPS as well as my map and compasses.

Redhawk we agree on something. Figured it had to happen eventually.

[DuctTape]

Unsporting? I suppose it depends on what sport you are participating in. If you are hiking then the GPS, map and compass are all navigational tools used to hike no less than wearing boots or insect repellent. If you are participating in an orienteering competition then using a GPS might be a violation of the rules, or if you are practicing for the competition. In this case a GPS would be unsportsmanlike. If you are geocaching the limited precision of the map and compass might make finding the cache prohibitive in which case the GPS becomes a necessary tool to enjoy the sport. For me it all depends upon the sport to define whether something is unsporting. Of course I could be wrong, it has happened in the past.