GPS. Unsportsmanlike?

[Neil]

However, I have never had a gps problem, even under the canopy. AND I always carry enough batteries.

My GPS (RINO 130) lost reception repeatedly this summer, sometimes for over an hour. Usually under wet, deciduous canopy. Sometimes when it had reception the accuracy was only 100 meters.

[najobzly]

I agree with points on both sides, I am skilled with both, and also use a blend just like Mavs was saying. I like to plot my planned/Alt routes on mapping software and the physical map. I plot my waypoints on both, as long as I am tracking with my GPS if it fails between two points it is not hard to figure out location based on terrain. I do agree that many places in the western Daks triangulation from terrain features can be tough!
As far as sport goes, well I guess it depends on your definition. Those of us that have military exp. remember the land nav courses, they were a blast when made into a competiton, and for that GPS would be cheating. However I have really enjoyed the use of GPS in hiking because no matter how good you are with a m/c you really do have to think more and pay more attention to that type of navigation. With a GPS I can let it do most of the work while I drink in the sights, sounds, and joys of nature.... my kind of sport.

[Boreal Chickadee]

That's interesting Neil because my Rino 120 lost reception all the time this summer also. The only reason I knew was because it beeps each time it loses a signal. I like to have fun with it and keep track of mileage covered for the hike but on several I didn't bother to even look at it at the end because it couldn't lock worth a darn on several trips.

[Wildernessphoto]

That's interesting Neil because my Rino 120 lost reception all the time this summer also. The only reason I knew was because it beeps each time it loses a signal. I like to have fun with it and keep track of mileage covered for the hike but on several I didn't bother to even look at it at the end because it couldn't lock worth a darn on several trips.

Have you guys undated your software?
I updated mine to 3.90 the other day, and got a lock on 5 satellites, sitting at my desk in my office. Go to the download page:
Garmin updates & downloads

[redhawk]

That's interesting Neil because my Rino 120 lost reception all the time this summer also. The only reason I knew was because it beeps each time it loses a signal. I like to have fun with it and keep track of mileage covered for the hike but on several I didn't bother to even look at it at the end because it couldn't lock worth a darn on several trips.

Mine sometimes loses the signals fior a few seconds and then reacquires, making no difference at all in it's performance.

I have found that placement makes a big difference and that even a few inches counts. I have a homemade velcro "Strap" that wraps around the shoulder strap of my backpack, right above my shoulder. My gps clip slips into that. I rarely lose signal. except for a few seconds, and then it reacquires immediately even under a dense canopy. If I wear it 6" lower, then the performance degrades.

When i take my pack off to rest, if I make sure the gps is still "up", it's fine. If I let the pack cover it, it loses signal.

And as Gary says, make sure you keep up to date on the firmware. You can sign up to have Garmin email you any time there is an update.

Hawk

[Neil]

I downloaded Garmin's webupdater and when I tried it out it informed me I was all up to date. But when I then compared the software in my Rino 130 (5.4) to the version on the manual download page I saw they were offering 5.5

So I wrote them asking WTF is going on.

I keep my antenna up nice and high on my shoulder. When I lost signal I stood there like the statue of liberty for a long time and got no more than a sore shoulder.

Good thing I had my plastic Smurfs ring compass.

[Wildernessphoto]

sounds like your unit is defective Neil
Maybe we need to swap. You take my 120 that works, and I'll suffer through with the 130...

[redhawk]

I keep my antenna up nice and high on my shoulder. When I lost signal I stood there like the statue of liberty for a long time and got no more than a sore shoulder.

You'll acquire a signal faster if you are moving.

You don't have it in "battery saver" mode do you? You will lose signal that way, keep it in "normal" mode.

[Boreal Chickadee]

Sir Hawk updates mine since my USB cable is still lost from the remodeling.
When going up to Fish Hawk Cliffs and Indian Head with Dick and Joanne, both of ours was osing signal a number of times.

I lost it frequently in the Dixes. In the Santas I didn't turn it on until just before the herd path (my mistake) and it didn't acquire a 3D location until over half way up to the col. lost it several more times from there to Couchie. I finally just turned it off somewhere out on the ridge simce I wasn't going to be able to get a mileage reading anyway.

I carry it clipped high on the shoulder strap. I would say the top of the antenna is just at my shoulder level.

[Neil]

You'll acquire a signal faster if you are moving.

No kidding? I always believed the opposite to be true.

You don't have it in "battery saver" mode do you? You will lose signal that way, keep it in "normal" mode.

I never use battery saver mode.

[redhawk]

No kidding? I always believed the opposite to be true.

That's why Indian Guides are at a premium!!

[redhawk]

A Clarification.

I just realized that I am saying something that is not altogether accurate when i say I never lose signal.

Id, but it reacquires within 15-45 seconds which for all intents and purposes in my mind is inconsequential since it does not hinder my navigation at all, and it still tracks accurately.

I hear it beep when i lose signal and i just continue hiking and check it about 1 minute la5er and it has reacquired the signal fine.

Just wanted to clear that up so there would be no misconceptions.

Hawk

[Neil]

That's why Indian Guides are at a premium!!

But you said you were free on Saturday.

[redhawk]

I think it is more sporting to do more with less or at least that is how I choose to define "sporting". Fill in any of your examples here.
I don't see how making a personal preference choice is foolish. Even if/when my gps skills develop to the point of comfortable I will still want to practice m/c sometimes to keep my skills sharp. Map and compass is lighter for those concerned with weight. Batteries are expensive and could be seen as a waste of energy (even rechargables).

I can use map and compass, used to teach it in the service in fact, along with dead reckoning and survival skills.

You can drop me in the middle of a wilderness I am completely unfamilar with, having only the clothes on my back and a simple knife and I will survive and find my way out.

So should I hike without a pack or map or compass to be more sporting?

First of all, Boxing is a sport, baseball is a sport, backpacking is not a sport, it's a recreation. Navigation with map and compass is not a sport, it's a skill.

One of the things I learned, and later instructed is to give yourself every edge you can. Do everything you can to ensure you will get to where you want to get and then back as safely and comfortably as possible. In my estimation, the GPS gives me that edge. In skilled hands it is much more accurate for following a bearing, especially where the terrain is broken and has to be circumvented. It also has alternate ways out in case of emergency that I have entered into it. It tells me how far the nearest shelter is, ahead, back or on the flanks in case I have to find one as quickly as possible. In other words, it is much more practical and versitle then a map and compass.

Personally, I'll carry my gps, and the batteries I use get replaced abouut every three years and they are recycled

As far as your battery argument, then should I assume that you don't carry a camera eitherm because it uses batteries, or what about a flashlight or headlamp. Do you carry candles for illumination because they are lighter and require no batteries? What do you think is the smarter choice for safety? A camera or a gps?

Mostly, when I bushwhack, I rely on dead reckoning, stopping at intervals to check my gps to see if i am still going in the right direction. For backup, i have map and compasses (2) just in case I experience a problem with the gps.

I don't do "sporting" in the woods. I'm out there to unwind, to cut my own litle bit of solitude and to observe and enjoy everything around me. I want it to be as easy as I can to walk to where I want to ge so I don't have to waste time reading the map or compass when i can tell at a glance of the gps if I am on course. I got nothing to prove, to myself or anyone else. I know that I can navigate with map & compass or by dead reckoning if necessary.

I spent a few "sporting" years where people were trying to kill me on a regular basis. Of course I was trying to kill them too. I was more successfull or luckier then they were. that was enough "sport" to last me a lifetime.

I'll take "Leisure".

[Rik]

Not sure why you quoted me from six months ago but...

I can use map and compass, used to teach it in the service in fact, along with dead reckoning and survival skills.

You can drop me in the middle of a wilderness I am completely unfamilar with, having only the clothes on my back and a simple knife and I will survive and find my way out.

That's great.

So should I hike without a pack or map or compass to be more sporting?

That's up to you.

First of all, Boxing is a sport, baseball is a sport, backpacking is not a sport, it's a recreation. Navigation with map and compass is not a sport, it's a skill.

A skill one could choose to use for sporting purposes should one choose to do so.

One of the things I learned, and later instructed is to give yourself every edge you can. Do everything you can to ensure you will get to where you want to get and then back as safely and comfortably as possible. In my estimation, the GPS gives me that edge. In skilled hands it is much more accurate for following a bearing, especially where the terrain is broken and has to be circumvented. It also has alternate ways out in case of emergency that I have entered into it. It tells me how far the nearest shelter is, ahead, back or on the flanks in case I have to find one as quickly as possible. In other words, it is much more practical and versitle then a map and compass.

Personally, I'll carry my gps, and the batteries I use get replaced abouut every three years and they are recycled

Sometimes I carry one too.

As far as your battery argument, then should I assume that you don't carry a camera eitherm because it uses batteries, or what about a flashlight or headlamp. Do you carry candles for illumination because they are lighter and require no batteries?

Not really an argument so much as a possible reason one might choose to not carry a gps. What difference does it make what I carry? Sometimes I carry a camera. Sometimes a flashlight. Usually a headlamp. Sometimes candles. Sometimes these choices are made based on weight.

What do you think is the smarter choice for safety? A camera or a gps?

Probably a gps but what does that have to do with "sporting"?

Mostly, when I bushwhack, I rely on dead reckoning, stopping at intervals to check my gps to see if i am still going in the right direction. For backup, i have map and compasses (2) just in case I experience a problem with the gps.

Fine choices.

I don't do "sporting" in the woods. I'm out there to unwind, to cut my own litle bit of solitude and to observe and enjoy everything around me. I want it to be as easy as I can to walk to where I want to ge so I don't have to waste time reading the map or compass when i can tell at a glance of the gps if I am on course. I got nothing to prove, to myself or anyone else. I know that I can navigate with map & compass or by dead reckoning if necessary.

Some people do.

I spent a few "sporting" years where people were trying to kill me on a regular basis. Of course I was trying to kill them too. I was more successfull or luckier then they were. that was enough "sport" to last me a lifetime.

Thank you.

I'll take "Leisure".

Another fine choice.