GPS. Unsportsmanlike?

[Neil]

Where I come from:

Decades of bushwhacking in Manitoba and Nothwest Ontario using Map &Compass.
Relatively new to the ADKs where the latent peakbagger in me was released. Gradually started combining the bushwhacker with the peakbagger tendencies.
Got a GPS and learned it along with computer mapping - at least what I needed to get around the dacks.


After about 6 months of gps'ing my way around a few of the HH I got this niggling feeling that I was missing something even though my unit didn't have mapping and I still used the M&C a lot. The need for awareness and map and terrain study dimished a great deal. Bagging peaks in a short winter day was made a whole lot easier but something was missing.
Then I went on a bushwhack with a guy who could do almost as much with his M&C as I could with my gps. That hike became a M&C hike with the gps playing a supportive, backseat role. "See that squiggle", that's that little rise over there" he would say.

I kept using the gps and honing my skills and upgraded to a mapping gps. It got even easier.

Then my M &C friend, Nessmuk, wrote a 20 page treatise on navigation, map reading and compass use. Until then, I thought I was pretty sharp with a M & C but this was taking it to a new level. So, last month I bushwhacked for a few days in Quebec and we used M &C only to roam around, peak and pondbagging. I enjoyed it a lot more than if we had used the gps.

So I kept thinking about it. My tentative hypothesis: it's more "sporting" to use M&C.
That dosn't suggest I'm going to throw my gps out, by no means. However, I will be leaving it at home more often, or using it only as a recording device for the fun of checking the route I followed when I get back home. Getting to the base of certain slides is another excellent use, especially real narrow, obscure ones. Anyway, I'd love to read what other people have to say about it.

[Wldrns]

Where I come from:

Decades of bushwhacking in Manitoba and Nothwest Ontario using Map &Compass.
Relatively new to the ADKs where the latent peakbagger in me was released. Gradually started combining the bushwhacker with the peakbagger tendencies.
Got a GPS and learned it along with computer mapping - at least what I needed to get around the dacks.


After about 6 months of gps'ing my way around a few of the HH I got this niggling feeling that I was missing something even though my unit didn't have mapping and I still used the M&C a lot. The need for awareness and map and terrain study dimished a great deal. Bagging peaks in a short winter day was made a whole lot easier but something was missing.
Then I went on a bushwhack with a guy who could do almost as much with his M&C as I could with my gps. That hike became a M&C hike with the gps playing a supportive, backseat role. "See that squiggle", that's that little rise over there" he would say.

I kept using the gps and honing my skills and upgraded to a mapping gps. It got even easier.

Then my M &C friend, Nessmuk, wrote a 20 page treatise on navigation, map reading and compass use. Until then, I thought I was pretty sharp with a M & C but this was taking it to a new level. So, last month I bushwhacked for a few days in Quebec and we used M &C only to roam around, peak and pondbagging. I enjoyed it a lot more than if we had used the gps.

So I kept thinking about it. My tentative hypothesis: it's more "sporting" to use M&C.
That dosn't suggest I'm going to throw my gps out, by no means. However, I will be leaving it at home more often, or using it only as a recording device for the fun of checking the route I followed when I get back home. Getting to the base of certain slides is another excellent use, especially real narrow, obscure ones. Anyway, I'd love to read what other people have to say about it.

Not unsportsmanlike, but a different level of understanding where you are, what surrounds you, and why you are there. Just different.

I've always advocated the primary use of gps as a "tool", something to accomplish a job, and a fine tool it is.

Thanks, Neil, for re-opening your eyes to the satisfaction of backcountry recreation by M&C, and in touching your senses to the earth as only M&C lets you do.

-Paul

[Rik]

I would agree that M&C seem more "sporting" but not more "sportsmanlike".
Unsportsmanlike sounds too close to unethical, cheating, not playing fair...
I like this analogy: Map and Compass is to GPS what Bow and Arrow hunting is to Rifle hunting.

[Neil]

I agree with Wilderns and Rik , in fact I was thinking the exact same thing while running an errand. To me, the term "sport" implies using a set of skills while getting some exercise. Like golf, flyfishing, playing hockey etc. And so if gps usage decreases the usage of skills then it is less sporting. Note that using the gps is a skill all of its own. A rasther interesting one at that. Not as demanding as terrain feature navigation and compass work but sporting just the same.

[billandjudy]

Another means to an end I would think. It's fun to see how far off your route you've wandered because of thickets, blowdown and not paying attention I like to keep track logs of my bushwacks so someday when I go back for seconds, I'll know what to avoid. I would never rely solely on a GPS--bad things can happen to electronics--we suffered through enough of the "lost signal" and "this is a 2D fix" messages last weekend that I turned it off and got back w/ M&C. But just because we don't use the same equipment our Grandaddys did,.. I'm not sure that would make us unsportsmanlike or cheaters--we are using what is available, just as they did in years gone by. I know I can find my way around w/ a M&C and carry them all the time--It's also neat to have toys to play w/ too! Both M&C and GPS point you in the right direction, but you still have to do the walking

[redhawk]

Well, based on the tone of the conversation so far, it would be far "more sporting" to use dead reckoning, and tell time by the position of the sun in the sky.

Sporting doesn'y have a thing to do with it. I can read map and compas better then most people. I was a professional. i can also dead reckon well and get from one place to another using only the stars to navigate. I can go into the wilderness without any tools and make fire and find food and make shelter.

Is it less sporting for me to take a lighterand trioxoline, tent, backpack, food and a stove?

If I lose my gps while I am out hiking I can always revert to my map and compass and if my map and compass gets lost, I can rely on my other primitive skills.

Is it more ssporting to walk everywhere we want to go, rather then use the a car? Actually it will be a lot less expensive and will cause no pollution so that might be where this logic should be applied.

So, the answer the question, there is absolutely nothing unsportmanlike about using a gps. It is no more sporting to use a map and compass, in fact if one can afford and know how to use a gps it is rather foolish to insist on using a map and compass instead of a gps.

Having said all that, one should not venture into the wilds with a gps if they do not also carry a map and compass and the ability to use them. that would be just plain idiocy. And of course one should carry spare batteries.

Technology has changed everythin in the way we hike today. We have better packs, stoves, shoes, tents, water filters, fire starters. Would it be considered more sporting to hike with an old army rucksack, GI Boots, a pup tent? Of course not.

There is nothing wrong with using technology if it makes thing safer.

[Rik]

Note that using the gps is a skill all of its own. A rasther interesting one at that. Not as demanding as terrain feature navigation and compass work but sporting just the same.

Great point. If I was to go out right now with a gps it would be far more demanding for me than m/c would be because I haven't done it. Maybe it would not be as demanding if your skills were equal in the use of both tools?

[Neil]

Well, based on the tone of the conversation so far, it would
be far "more sporting" to use dead reckoning, and tell time by the position of the sun in the sky.

Sporting doesn'y have a thing to do with it.

The question wasn't really about the most extreme sportingly way of hiking possible. Just a comparison between with and without a gps.

I've been through many an argument in my head before starting this (vanilla flavoured?) discussion and to me, using a gps is less sporting than not using one.

Oh, I can tell time to the minute by merely glancing at the sky,night or day, if I know the date and my lat/long. (Haha that's pure BS. I'm pretty good at dawn and dusk though.)

And what does the "tone" have anything to do with anything?

[Rik]

It is no more sporting to use a map and compass, in fact if one can afford and know how to use a gps it is rather foolish to insist on using a map and compass instead of a gps.

I think it is more sporting to do more with less or at least that is how I choose to define "sporting". Fill in any of your examples here.
I don't see how making a personal preference choice is foolish. Even if/when my gps skills develop to the point of comfortable I will still want to practice m/c sometimes to keep my skills sharp. Map and compass is lighter for those concerned with weight. Batteries are expensive and could be seen as a waste of energy (even rechargables).

[Mavs00]

I don't know if "sporting" or "sportsmanlike" are really the right words here. Not in my way of thinking. A GPS, as stated, is a navigational aid only. If it's one you choose to use than that's perfectly acceptable. If you get MORE personal satisfaction not using one or using more traditional methods, then by all means.

Heck, to my son, his DAD (or others) is a navigational aid, and while he is learning, he still primarily depends on my guidance or simply follows my steps (or our steps, as the case may be) when whacking a remote peak. I wouldn't say he was being unsportmenlike when we all climbed Lost Pond together, would you? He didn't assist at all in the getting there part, but he certainly had to push through the brush, climb over the blowdown, sink into snow, etc, etc, etc.... with the rest of us. I'd say it was very sporting of him, and if you asked him, he'd agree. It's a matter of perspective.

It comes down to personal satisfaction, if you feel more like a "woodsman" by using M&C, then by all means, I say fire up with it. I'm not sure that I would say its right, or wrong either way. We rely on whatever means of navigation make us feel comfortable, be it GPS, M&C, or Dad. Hell, Verplank Colvin, intrepid explorer he was, depended HEAVILY on local guidesmen like Ed Phelps, John Cheney & Bill Nye to "find the way" and it certainly doesn't make him less of a pioneer.

Personally I've been adopting a blended technique now for awhile (trying to anyway). I generally don't set pre-waypoints and do as much mapstudy pre-hike as I would if I wasn't using a GPS. I don't feel any more (or less) comfortable in the woods with or without my GPS. It's only ever been a tool, a powerful one for sure, but a tool nonetheless. Your statement:

That hike became a M&C hike with the gps playing a supportive, backseat role. "See that squiggle", that's that little rise over there" he would say.

defines precisely what I've been trying to do with my last few b-whacks, except take out the M&C and add ObNav. That's why I love this time of year, the increased visibility make it "easier" to combine the two skills.

Not sure what I'm getting at, except to say. Unsportsmenlike??? Not Sporting??? those terms don't really resonate well in this context.

Now if they developed a GPS device that dragged my fat ass up the mountain, while simultaneously parting dense conifer thickets and floating me over blowdown, than THAT might make it a touch unsporty

[Neil]

I don't know if "sporting" or "sportsmanlike" are really the right words here. Not in my way of thinking. A GPS, as stated, is a navigational aid only. If it's one you choose to use than that's perfectly acceptable. If you get MORE personal satisfaction not using one or using more traditional methods, then by all means.

I'm just trying to convey what I felt was missing when I used it compared to what I got out of relying on M/C. I've been thinking about it quite a bit and since, unlike Colvin and others, this is a purely recreational activity for me the word "sportsmanlike" came into my head. Sporting is a much better choice though.

It comes down to personal satisfaction, if you feel more like a "woodsman" by using M&C, then by all means, I say fire up with it. I'm not sure that I would say its right, or wrong either way. Hell, Verplank Colvin, intrepid explorer he was, depended HEAVILY on local guidesmen like Ed Phelps, John Cheney & Bill Nye to "find the way" and it certainly doesn't make him less of a pioneer.

Personal satisfaction pretty well sums it all up. Actually, I don't think of it in terms of "right or wrong" which would mean "sporting" is a bad choice of words. To say it's not as "sporting" to use a GPS as compared to M/C has a negative judgement to it. Being a "woodsman" dosn't have anything to do with it, at least not for me. In fact, I'm a lousey woodsman and don't mind saying so.

Personally I've been adopting a blended technique now for awhile (trying to anyway). I generally don't set pre-waypoints and do as much map study pre-hike as I would if I wasn't using a GPS. I don't feel any more (or less) comfortable in the woods with or without my GPS. It's only ever been a tool, a powerful one for sure, but a tool nonetheless.

The blended approach may be the best of both worlds. In which case one dosn't need much in the way of a gps, just something that will give you a bearing to the next WP and your current position. You might only fire it up 3 or 4 times on an all day hike just to check your position. This is exactly how Doug and I did ST5.

One thing I will be doing, just for fun: draw up a route in Topo! of some bushwhack hike and use ONLY the gps as a navigational tool. That's right. Follow the arrows and numbers all day long as a an experiment for a little article I plan on writing soon.

[Cahill]

I always feel like I'm cheating when I use my GPS. Especially when I put a route in before leaving the house. Don't know why... I just do.
I still prefer m&c, primarily because I'm still more comfortable with it.
What scares me is the folks walking around in the woods staring down at their gps, not paying attention to their surroundings and not carrying a backup m&c because they don't know how to use them.

[Wldrns]

What scares me is the folks walking around in the woods staring down at their gps, not paying attention to their surroundings

I have witnessed this, including with otherwise experienced backcountry woodsmen friends of mine infatuated with the new technology in their hand... until I pointed out what they were doing. This is part of my point... to go into the woods is to experience and be a part of what nature has to offer, to pay attention to what the woods teaches us by observing the terrain, being one with the terrain, not to ignore it. Why else to go to the hills and trees?

[billandjudy]

I just don't think there is cheating in hiking--who cares how you get where you want to go--M&C, GPS, stars, following rabbit tracks--you still have to walk it! Am I cheating if I use hiking poles? A knee brace? Everyone enjoys the journey in different ways, the equipment you use has no "bearing" on cheating or being un sportsmanlike.

[Neil]

Why else to go to the hills and trees?

To trail run!