Bear Spray versus Bullets Study

[LifeOutside]

Lifeoutside , congratulations on your choice to go through the ccw class and exercise your 2A right You will learn a lot there and you can also find more classes that will teach you a lot more ,google nraila , nysrpa.org ect. ect. but this forum isn't too condusive on that end
The bear spray should stop the threat right then and there ( as long as you don't spray directly upwind ) After that youve left , bear is either looking for her cubs or its next meal. As long as you have'nt rolled yourself in honey and bacon grease I doubt you even need to look over your shoulder.

Taken the safety course, havent bothered to apply for it yet. It's an annoying process.

[redhawk]

I have several thousand miles in backcountry out West. Much of it prime grizzly country. I have been in proximity, sometimes close on several occasions with griz.

To date not one bear has been harmed nor threatenedby me. A few of them have taken to wearing bells to make sure they do not startle me.

My point is that i followed the rules, stayed alert in bear country, used bear bags and common sense. As a result, the encounters I have had with bears have been positive ones. When in the proximity of a bear, I feel the presence of God. What did I carry for protection? Common sense and a healthy respect for the creatures. BTW bears and most other animals sense fear and aggression and act accordingly.

In a couple more weeks, Doug and I will be in "bear country". We will be carrying bear spray because it's mandatory. Personally, I hope to see one or two of those magnificent creatures again.

More people are killed and injured by shooting accidents in a year then are injured or killed by bears in 100 years. So, do the math.

Hawk

[ALGonquin Bob]

Considering that a situation even remotely similar to the above detailed scenario (the post with photo) has never occurred (as far as I know), this is all moot (see Post #31 Paragraph 2). What has ever happened in the Adirondacks, or in the Northeast U.S. for that matter, to cause all of this fear of the black bear?

[randomscooter]

Considering that a situation even remotely similar to the above detailed scenario (the post with photo) has never occurred (as far as I know), this is all moot (see Post #31 Paragraph 2). What has ever happened in the Adirondacks, or in the Northeast U.S. for that matter, to cause all of this fear of the black bear?

I agree 100%, at least in the Adirondacks. Many thousands of trail miles, bushwhacking, night hiking, camping, etc, for over 35 years and never never an encounter that was remotely threatening.

I think I can safely extrapolate my experience in the Adirondacks to include the Northeast, perhaps even black bears in all North America (but I have read that the percentage of aggressive black bears in the West is greater than in the East, so I'm not as confident), but I think it would be imprudent to extrapolate my experience to include grizzlies.

So the scenario and questions I posed in post 35 are specifically related to grizzlies, and I have edited that post to clarify. I've made one trip to Alaska, a two week rafting trip, and we saw a handful of black bears and grizzlies. Never were they terribly close, although one day we went for a hike and when we came back to camp there were fresh grizzly tracks in the sand. We carried firearms, and I'll admit that when I headed into the alders for (well, you know) I carried a 12 gauge. I suspect it was lack of experience more than anything that caused my discomfort.

Still, I am curious to know what scientific data exists on the behavior of grizzlies post-spraying, both immediately and after the effects have worn off, as I do plan on returning to that same area in the near future, this time for backpacking.

[ALGonquin Bob]

I'm with you all the way, regarding the Grizz!

[timetohike]

Considering that a situation even remotely similar to the above detailed scenario (the post with photo) has never occurred (as far as I know), this is all moot (see Post #31 Paragraph 2). What has ever happened in the Adirondacks, or in the Northeast U.S. for that matter, to cause all of this fear of the black bear?

You have never read of a hiker, hunter, photographer, or anyone else encountering a bear in heavy brush?

Here is one in which the victin threw his gun at the bear


I don't think it is a "fear" of black bears. I'm not afraid of dogs, but I know they can bite and I treat every dog I encounter, including my own, as potential flesh eaters. When people ask if they can pet my dog I say "yes, but she might bite you." Not because she hasm but because she could. it is part of their nature.

So although most black bears will run off if shoed away, it is the ones that don't that we have to be concerned about. And because none of them wear tatoos or shirts that tell us their nature, they all should be treated with caution.

Here is a list of bear attacks in the US and Canada. The statistics in that list show that more people are killed by black bears than the combined number killed by grizzly and other brown bears.

[DuctTape]

The problem with statistics and the publication of them is they often mislead the general public into a false sense of relative risk. As linked in the previous post, about 1 person per year was fatally attacked by a bear. While these deaths often make headlines, it is because of the rarity. However it is the headlines which increase the perceived risk of the general population. It is estimated that 7-10 people per year (in the US) are killed by venomous snakes. (IIRC the most common was the eastern and western diamondbacks.) It is also estimated that 600 people per year die of hypothermia. So with all the discussion surrounding protecting oneself from a bear attack, one is almost 10 times more likely to be killed from a snake bite and 600 times more likely to die from hypothermia. While I am not posting this to dismiss the risk associated with bear encounters, it is meant to point out how relatively low risk the danger really is. Shall we begin debating the merits of rattlesnake spray vs leather chaps next... statsitically that thread should be 350-500 posts long!

[DRIFTER]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I usually don't give my secrets away. but since this discussion has never had what I considered the perfect remedy to the situation, I'll make this one exception! Online you can find hunting outfitters who sell bear-bait, it can come in many forms but I have found a tube of paste is best for this purpose. Late, during your nights sleep, when you get up for that annoying #1, take along your tube of bear-bait and your buddy's hiking boots.........That's right, load them down with the stuff and rub it in good! Place them back so he'll never know and in the morning, engage him in a discussion about what to do if you ever run into a surly sow with cubs. Suggest that the best idea you've ever heard was written up in 'Field and Stream' and it stated running in opposite directions of each other to confuse the bear was highly recommended. Tell him from what you've read, it works every time, at least you'll only be half fibbing, right! Try this next time and please give me feedback on how it worked for you, try to keep a good supply of buds & bait on hand if you like to venture into high bear population areas though!!!!

DRIFTER...HEEELP!

[randomscooter]

Sounds like that'll work, but my preferred defense is a .22 cal handgun. No, it won't stop the bear, but a shot in my partner's calf will surely slow him down and leave a good blood trail. Much easier for the bear to catch him than me.

[DRIFTER]

.........That may have worked years ago, but today with all this CSI and DNA.......doubtful! My way you can always fall on, " golly-gee officer, I think he may have stepped in something earlier". Your way," that's right sir, this angry bear came at us brandishing a 22cal revolver nailing my friend in the leg". Why they'd see through that in a matter of days.......

[St.Regis]

Here is a list of bear attacks in the US and Canada. The statistics in that list show that more people are killed by black bears than the combined number killed by grizzly and other brown bears.

I did a little review of the stats - didn't use unknowns, just compared griz to black deaths from present to the 1960s...

The decades from the 1960s through the 1990s had more griz/brown attacks than blacks...in fact about 1/3 more griz than black deaths...

In the 1990s: 10 griz, 7 black (17 total)

In the 1980s: 8 griz, 1 black (9 total)

In the 1970s: 3 griz, 5 black (8 total)

In the 1960s: 2 griz, 1 black (3 total)

37 deaths in 40 years (less than 1/year)


It appears this decade (2000s) is the worst for bear attacks, and basically 1/3 more black bear than griz deaths...

In the 2000s (so far): 10 griz/brown, 15 black (25 total)

25 deaths in just over 7 years (+/- 3.5/year)

I'm not going to try and draw a bunch of conclusions. But I bet there are a lot more goofy people roaming in the woods now than ever before.

[timetohike]

I did a little review of the stats - didn't use unknowns, just compared griz to black deaths from present to the 1960s...

The decades from the 1960s through the 1990s had more griz/brown attacks than blacks...in fact about 1/3 more griz than black deaths...

In the 1990s: 10 griz, 7 black (17 total)

In the 1980s: 8 griz, 1 black (9 total)

In the 1970s: 3 griz, 5 black (8 total)

In the 1960s: 2 griz, 1 black (3 total)

37 deaths in 40 years (less than 1/year)


It appears this decade (2000s) is the worst for bear attacks, and basically 1/3 more black bear than griz deaths...

In the 2000s (so far): 10 griz/brown, 15 black (25 total)

25 deaths in just over 7 years (+/- 3.5/year)

I'm not going to try and draw a bunch of conclusions. But I bet there are a lot more goofy people roaming in the woods now than ever before.

I'm guessing there are a lot more black bear encounters because there are lot more people near and around black bears than browns. I stil think every animal should be treated with caution. Not fear,, but caution.

[randomscooter]

.........That may have worked years ago, but today with all this CSI and DNA.......doubtful! My way you can always fall on, " golly-gee officer, I think he may have stepped in something earlier". Your way," that's right sir, this angry bear came at us brandishing a 22cal revolver nailing my friend in the leg". Why they'd see through that in a matter of days.......

Good point. I think we'd both be in trouble though ... now that we've gone public with our methods.

[Neil]

Got any stats that show bear population changes?

Or, that compare bear population growth and decline with attacks by bears on humans?

[WinterWarlock]

Got any stats that show bear population changes?

Or, that compare bear population growth and decline with attacks by bears on humans?

I did read something about bear hunting in New York, and it's dramatic decline...I'll try to find it, but that likely has some effect as well.