Bear Spray versus Bullets Study

[Neil]

Isn't it something like 5% of black bears that are very agressive?

I tend to make an effort to avoid them. When alone in the woods I let out a shout every once in a while so as to avoid a sudden unexpected (for the bear) encounter. I have this vision of walking around a bend in the trail and seeing a cub on one side of the trail and its mother on the other.


A man was sleeping peacefully in his tent in Lake Louise a few years ago. A grizzly paid him a visit and gave him about 175 stitches. The Lake Louise campground now has an electric fence all around it. Bear attacks are bad for business.

[ALGonquin Bob]

There are also Grizzlies that are predatory by nature. The Barren Ground Grizzly of the far North has a mean disposition, and will pretty much eat anything or anyone...

[redhawk]

There are also Grizzlies that are predatory by nature. The Barren Ground Grizzly of the far North has a mean disposition, and will pretty much eat anything or anyone...

In the last couple of years that have ben incidents of griz stalking humns in the NW. It's been attributed to the fact that their habitant has been diminished and there is less food available for them. So in the late fall, even humans are considered prey. I read that recently somewhere, but not sure exactly where.

Hawk

[randomscooter]

Post-encounter bear behavior

Let's say I have a grizzly bear encounter and I am compelled to protect myself. I use pepper spray. How exactly does the bear react to the spraying? Presumably it will at the very least be distracted, but for how long and what is the specific reaction (run off, rub face, etc). Seems like a silly question, but I don't recall ever seeing any video on it or reading about it.

Perhaps more importantly, what does the bear do after the spray wears off? Assuming that I have vacated the immediate area of the encounter (probably a wise move on my part) what are the odds the bear will decide to follow me? I'm assuming the odds are low, but I sure would like to see some scientific data to back up that assumption.

If I'm far from safety (which is likely) it would be problematic if the bear were to follow me. I probably would've wished I had both spray and a gun, one to initially deter then the other to eliminate the threat after it was down.

[chairrock]

this stinks....

http://www.examiner.com/a-1383640~Of...NY_suburb.html

[1894]

It is sad Chair , but , nonetheless a fact of life. unless people are willing to add another 100 stories to the cities highrises and move there ,a few critters will ocasionaly get habituated to the easy food people provide and those individual critters will have to be put down. The good news is that obviously the populations are high enough that a few of the critters are pushed into suburbia because thier kin are succesfully taking over the available traditional habitat by sheer numbers. Sad to lose an individual bear , coyote , or whatever , but it means that the population is strong and thriving.

[LifeOutside]

Let's say I have a bear encounter and I am compelled to protect myself. I use pepper spray. How exactly does the bear react to the spraying? Presumably it will at the very least be distracted, but for how long and what is the specific reaction (run off, rub face, etc). Seems like a silly question, but I don't recall ever seeing any video on it or reading about it.

Perhaps more importantly, what does the bear do after the spray wears off? Assuming that I have vacated the immediate area of the encounter (probably a wise move on my part) what are the odds the bear will decide to follow me? I'm assuming the odds are low, but I sure would like to see some scientific data to back up that assumption.

If I'm far from safety (which is likely) it would be problematic if the bear were to follow me. I probably would've wished I had both spray and a gun, one to initially deter then the other to eliminate the threat after it was down.

I feel the same way... I'd rather have the spray as it has a greater probability of working initially and may give you some time, but would rather not be around when it wears off or if fails in deterring the bear... Hence I was also getting my pistol permit, for carry/conceal hiking/fishing/etc. At that point I know where the bear is, and at least i can do something if I seem em comin... but its most likely moot anyway. The problem is that though, the majority of the places I start or end at are State Campgrounds since Id rather leave my truck somewhere less prone to vandals due to traffic in locations but... your not allowed to have any firearms regardless even if passing threw on the premise except in hunting season... That and it's the touchy subject.
So I have bear spray x2!!! Of course I've been told it can also attract them in areas of a discharge as well. It seems anything you do attracts bears. Best thing to do is just avoid them if you see them rather than playing a tourist.

Neil seems immune though, I would probably get ready to tackle him if he was walking along next to me and all of a sudden yelled out.

[1894]

Lifeoutside , congratulations on your choice to go through the ccw class and exercise your 2A right You will learn a lot there and you can also find more classes that will teach you a lot more ,google nraila , nysrpa.org ect. ect. but this forum isn't too condusive on that end
The bear spray should stop the threat right then and there ( as long as you don't spray directly upwind ) After that youve left , bear is either looking for her cubs or its next meal. As long as you have'nt rolled yourself in honey and bacon grease I doubt you even need to look over your shoulder.

[marzrw]

And don't worry, I recently heard a story of a cop not sure if there was still a round in the chamber, so what does he do?

Wasn't that Clint Eastwood. : "Come on punk. do you feel lucky. Make my day."

Sorry, I know this was a serious issue. Couldn't help myself.

I know out west, my wife was very nervous on all of our hikes.

Behind Jackson Lake Lodge in an area called Willow Flats, there are a lot of elk. Well, one early morning a teen was out walking and happened upona grizzly who had just harvested an elk calf. Yup, he had seconds to react. He dropped to the ground and received a few puncture wounds and is alive today to tell his story. We had eaten at the lodge the night before and watched the elk out in the flats and woke the very next morning to view the sunrise there as well without knowing of the encounter...

Also came upon a black bear on the Crane Mt Pond trail. My wife nearly cr---ed her pants. The bear just crossed the path in front of us and ambled by.

[DuctTape]

I am way more worried about getting attacked by the 2-legged mammals in town than I am from the black furry ones in the backcountry. I feel safer in the woods than in the city. The statistics support my beliefs.

[LifeOutside]

I am way more worried about getting attacked by the 2-legged mammals in town than I am from the black furry ones in the backcountry. I feel safer in the woods than in the city. The statistics support my beliefs.

I agree. Actually in the woods I'm more afraid of seeing other people, or sleeping and being happened on by them since I usually solo more often than not. At least most animals will run away, being happened on by 2-leggers when out and about is frightening to me, well... at least if there solo. I guess I myself fall into my own hysteria.

[timetohike]

If I had both an adequate firearm and bear spray I would probably rely first on the firearm to stop a charging bear because it just seems so much more powerful and effective.

The problem is that you have to have sufficient time to determine your target and beyond before squeezing. In many scenarios, that may not be possible.

Just imagine walking down a narrow trail in a hardwood forest with lots of undergrowth. Now add Neil's scenario. You notice a cub or two to your right, and hear a crashing sound and "woof-woof" coming toward you from your left. Is it a bear? Is there anything in range beyond the bear that you would not want to kill? Will it be possible to make those determinations in the few seconds you have to react?

With bear spray the worst that might happen is a wildlife photographer tracking a bear and her cubs gets a face full of pepper spray. With the weapon, the worst that can happen is a complete disaster.

Now let’s complicate the problem. What if you have both a gun and bear spray and reach for the bear spray first. It turns out the first approaching object is another hiker foolishly trying to run from the bear. You mistakenly hit him with the pepper spray and then see the bear closing in behind.

At this point some might say "take out your sidearm and shoot the poor bastard before the bear eats him alive."

Others might suggest aiming for the bear in an attempt to save both of you. But don't you still have the target and beyond problem?

[LifeOutside]

With bear spray the worst that might happen is a wildlife photographer tracking a bear and her cubs gets a face full of pepper spray. With the weapon, the worst that can happen is a complete disaster.

Now let’s complicate the problem. What if you have both a gun and bear spray and reach for the bear spray first. It turns out the first approaching object is another hiker foolishly trying to run from the bear. You mistakenly hit him with the pepper spray and then see the bear closing in behind.

Ok... spray x2, and well. The photographer should know better that to even tangle with a mother and her cubs. I'm not sure but I think I could tell a bear from a human... especially running at me.

[timetohike]

I'm not sure but I think I could tell a bear from a human... especially running at me.

But imagine you are on this portion of the trail to Macomb. The cub is on your right just on the other side of the log. You perceive something approaching you from the brush on your left. Do you know of any firearms instructor who say you could fire with confidence in that situation?

[LifeOutside]

But imagine you are on this portion of the trail to Macomb. The cub is on your right just on the other side of the log. You perceive something approaching you from the brush on your left. Do you know of any firearms instructor who say you could fire with confidence in that situation?

Absolutely not, the justification of the application of deadly physical force to any individual according to NYS law is an immediate perceived threat, but it has to be to your immediate person or someone else that cannot be resolved by retreat or any other avoidable confrontation. It happens to coincide with my beliefs as well. Hunters have to identify targets and so do any other person that wields a firearm, more so for individuals with any handgun. Peace Officers have an obligation and an absolution of guilt in most cases when responding to complaints etc... , but normal citizens do not regardless if it is accidental, especially from civil suits. Quite frankly i'd rather die from the mistake of not shooting rather thank mistakenly shoot another person and ruining both or lives for ever. I'd rahter it just be my time.