Bear Spray versus Bullets Study

[redhawk]

.......I believe whatever you choose gun or spray, it would depend on whose hands it's in! I've seen people get nervous when approached by a squirrel much less a bear and it would be the same outcome if you missed with spray or a gun! As for using a gun, a 12 gauge shotgun using a proper load would definitely turn a bear away.....

There's a thread here somkewhere that i posted last January.

it;'s about an experienced hunter who shot a "problem" bear with a hunting rifle. Didn't kill it so went looking for it. bear came out of the brush and attacked her. her husband fired at the bear at close range while it was attacking her with either a 357 or a 44 magnum pistol. the hammer ripped off his thumb.

So much for experience.....

The article is posted here somewhere.

Most people under estimate the speed, power and intelligence of animals while greatly over estimating their own skills. I think it's a human trait.

Hawk

[DRIFTER]

I personally would never underestimate a black bear. I've been fortunate to have seen quite a few over the years and they are incredible animals both in speed and strength. I've had a few close encounters and as I've posted before,they do tend to raise your adrenaline level, fortunately they were amiable in nature. I would rather not have to find out what works, but my money would be on my 12 gauge.......

[Lute Hawkins]

Lute,
I need help in marketting my new line of kevlar hiking gear. I have plans drawn up for everything fom underwear to parkers. Some of the lines will include backpacks and tents. What colors do you think will sell? I know the LNT people call for earth tones but I was wondering about some Unisex pastels? I thought you might be a big help since you marketed those cheese holes and patches things....

I'm thinkin that better than kevlar, would be a suit made of holes. Since they can't be damaged, the projectile would pass right through the holes without doing any damage to you. Plus, the bigger the holes, the less the suit would weigh.

[DRIFTER]

You could offer two grades at two different price levels! Grade A & B, with the best of course being A-holes! They would be very light, almost gaseous!

[pico23]

In a high-use area such as Lake Colden where would the stray bullets go?

Same place they go when PD fires them off in a city...basically duck and cover.

Actually, we never camp there when there are other people, AND I'm being half serious and half joking about the rest of it (ie, randomly dumping 17 rounds into a bear, unless he really was eating our food, we are serious about food).

The 3 times I've been into Colden there have been a total (cumulative) of 4 groups. And 1 time we were alone.

Go on a Wed/Thur or Thur/Fri in late Oct/early Nov. If it calls for crappy weather you are even better. Sure it's not especially pretty, well past peak foliage, and before winter snow but quiet.

Besides where do the stray bullets go when people hunt? I'm guessing trees, rocks, and hills generally do a good job soaking them up.

And don't worry, I recently heard a story of a cop not sure if there was still a round in the chamber, so what does he do?

.....

Fires it into the air (out his apartment window). And no this isn't a made up story.

[ken999]

I'll run the lead, thanks...

[chairrock]

I'm thinkin that better than kevlar, would be a suit made of holes. Since they can't be damaged, the projectile would pass right through the holes without doing any damage to you. Plus, the bigger the holes, the less the suit would weigh.

By golly, I am glad I asked you! That would be even cheaper to produce since holes cost so little to manufacture! I still would appreciate any input on unisex pastel colors tho....fushia,limegreen?

[redhawk]

By golly, I am glad I asked you! That would be even cheaper to produce since holes cost so little to manufacture! I still would appreciate any input on unisex pastel colors tho....fushia,limegreen?

Lute's got a lot of spare holes hanging around too. Check out his head.

[Lute Hawkins]

Holes don't have any color themselves; they reflect the light of whatever they're next to. If the hole is on the ground, it takes on the same color as the soil around it. If the hole is inside a wedge of cheese, it takes on the color of the cheese around it. That's why holes are the perfect camoflage.

[Lute Hawkins]

Lute's got a lot of spare holes hanging around too. Check out his head.

I store alot of my holes in boxes. The good thing about holes is that they are easily compressed, so you can put alot of holes in a single box. I do have some excess inventory on hand; I can send you some for the cost of shipping (cheap) plus a small handling charge. Let me know what size you need...I also have sample holes available in assorted sizes.

[redhawk]

I store alot of my holes in boxes. The good thing about holes is that they are easily compressed, so you can put alot of holes in a single box. I do have some excess inventory on hand; I can send you some for the cost of shipping (cheap) plus a small handling charge. Let me know what size you need...I also have sample holes available in assorted sizes.

Just checked my pants, Don't need any more holes.

But thanks....

Question on hole sizes though. Just for a point of reference.

Is the "A" hole the biggest?

hawk

[ALGonquin Bob]

"Black bears are more aggressive then Grizzleys."

Got a big problem with that one. A black bear's natural behavior is to avoid, if not run away, from humans. Over a course of many years, sloppy campers in high use areas have encouraged bears to associate humans with food, thus altering that normal behavior in those regions (ex: Marcy Dam-Colden corridor). Regardless, black bears are usually after food and don’t care much about the people. The exception is the rare predatory black bear that makes national headlines when it kills a camper, as happened last year on Fathers Day.

Grizzlies are much more aggressive in their normal behavior, injure plenty of people who happen to be in the wrong place as the Grizz attacks in defense of its young or to protect food, but are less prone to predatory attack.

Fight a black bear, play dead with a grizz (unless it's eating you!)

[redhawk]

"Black bears are more aggressive then Grizzleys."

Got a big problem with that one. A black bear's natural behavior is to avoid, if not run away, from humans. Over a course of many years, sloppy campers in high use areas have encouraged bears to associate humans with food, thus altering that normal behavior in those regions (ex: Marcy Dam-Colden corridor). Regardless, black bears are usually after food and don’t care much about the people. The exception is the rare predatory black bear that makes national headlines when it kills a camper, as happened last year on Fathers Day.

Grizzlies are much more aggressive in their normal behavior, injure plenty of people who happen to be in the wrong place as the Grizz attacks in defense of its young or to protect food, but are less prone to predatory attack.

Fight a black bear, play dead with a grizz (unless it's eating you!)

That's the opinion of experts, not one I came up with.
Perhaps my choice of the word "aggressive" was poor.

Encounters are more common with black bears because they are strealthier and black bears are less likely then Grizzlys to back down and go away unless it's territorial or protecting their young, as you say.

You are also correct in your statement that you go to the ground and lie still with a griz and fight a black bear (as well as a Cougar)

I think we both agree, I just used the wrong word.

At any rate, the gist is that while many see the Griz as a "danger" bear and consider the black bear rather docile in comparison, it's the latter that is most likely to result in a negative encounter.

Rule of thumb is do what you can to avoid all bears.
Unless you're an Idiot, like me or of course a bear hunter.

Hawk

[chairrock]

Just checked my pants, Don't need any more holes.

But thanks....

Question on hole sizes though. Just for a point of reference.

Is the "A" hole the biggest?

hawk

I think its the" F" and "A" hole that are the biggest!

[ALGonquin Bob]

I agree that some sort of encounter with a black bear is much more likely, especially given that black bears are closer to the major population areas (or visa-versa) and consequently closer to high-use areas such as the Smokies and the Allegheny Mountains.

I work in an outdoor store, and am surprised at how many of the gun-totin' outdoorsmen are afraid to go into black bear country without their gun. I think there is an interesting psychological study in that topic, but I won't start it here. I admit that I am not completely care-free when solo camping in the mountains, but I would never consider carrying a firearm for protection up there. I do keep my paddle or trek pole at my side as a (totally useless) peace-of-mind thing while bedding down for the night - unless I'm in a tent, in which case the nylon fabric would most certainly keep out scary critters.......... wouldn't it?