Bear Spray versus Bullets Study

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  • timetohike

    #1

    Bear Spray versus Bullets Study

    Do you have a better chance of avoiding injury from a bear if you have a firearm or just bear spray? Statistics and a recent study concluded that you are better off with the bear spray than the firearm

    A US Fish and Wildlife Service report entitled Bear Spray vs. Bullets states that:

    "The question is not one of marksmanship or clear thinking in the face of a growling bear, for even a skilled marksman with steady nerves may have a slim chance of deterring a bear attack with a gun.

    Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality -- based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time.

    During the same period, persons defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used."

    Science Daily also has a story about the study.
  • LifeOutside
    Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 185

    #2
    Is this a study about grizzlys?
    Black bears aren't much of a threat around here. The most nusiance they are is from getting your food from usually careless campers.
    I do carry bear spray but it isn't from just general encounters more if I encounter a predatory bear. Thats pretty much the only real threat. So its usually in the outside pocket on my pack, which I can drop in a second and pull out.
    Carrying a gun around just causes problems more with the human kind than anything else. With any bear it's more often to make em angry and not even hurt em if you in a situation where there running at you. Your probably going to miss or not have any time to react and just anger them.
    Who really knows though, bears are unpredicable. Everyone black bear i've seen is more interested in food and if they see you and you see them, they wander away unless there otherwise engaged or have cubs nearby.
    Tech by Day. Nature by Night.

    Comment

    • timetohike

      #3
      The study was about grizzly encounters. But the bear attack statistics show that more people are injured or killed by black bears then grizzly and browns combined. Now that could be because there are more people around blacks than grizzlies and browns.

      A while back I was surprised to read at the DEC website that "In the summer of 2003, there were 170 reported bear encounters with campers in which the bear either destroyed property (backpacks, tents, etc.), or was successful in obtaining food from campers."

      That seems like a lot. Even if you count June as a summer month, it amounts to about 2 encounters per day in which bears either got food or destroyed property.

      The latest DEC report on black bears mentions that a lot of human encounters with bears are perceived as threatening when they really are not. It concludes that as people become more accustom to such encounters they will see them as less threatening.

      Comment

      • Sasquatch
        Member
        • Jul 2004
        • 380

        #4
        Unless you're carrying a .50 cal. you aren't going to do much to stop a charging bear with a gun other than make it mad.

        People think because black bears are smaller, they're less dangerous. I read once that they are acutally more likely to kill once they start an attack than a brown bear. I know most of the horror stories involving bear attacks that ended in death I've heard involve black bears. Sure, Browns kill people too, but I think the black bears are more likely. I remember a few years back a baby in NJ was killed by a black bear when it snatched it out of a stroller. Granted the parents were idiotic, they were feeding the bear marshmallows and then put the empty bag in the stroller with the kid. Point to that one is, the bear could've dropped the kid, but didn't. Overall though, I don't worry much about bears. A few precautions and that's it.
        How is it that you are heading west? Well, we face north and then really sudden like turn left.

        Comment

        • redhawk
          Senior Resident Curmudgeon
          • Jan 2004
          • 10929

          #5
          Black bears are more aggressive then Grizzleys. They are also much stealthier, increasing the chances of a sudden surprise encounter with humans.
          "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

          Comment

          • wiiawiwb
            Member
            • Oct 2007
            • 685

            #6
            I've read some of Dr. Herrero's books and also exchanged some emails with him. It's difficult to argue with the statistics about bear spray vs. firearms. There are circumstances where bear spray can be a problem such as on a really windy day but, all-in-all, I'll choose the 10 oz. canister of Counter Assault.

            Comment

            • pico23
              Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 727

              #7
              Originally posted by Sasquatch
              Unless you're carrying a .50 cal. you aren't going to do much to stop a charging bear with a gun other than make it mad.

              People think because black bears are smaller, they're less dangerous. I read once that they are acutally more likely to kill once they start an attack than a brown bear. I know most of the horror stories involving bear attacks that ended in death I've heard involve black bears. Sure, Browns kill people too, but I think the black bears are more likely. I remember a few years back a baby in NJ was killed by a black bear when it snatched it out of a stroller. Granted the parents were idiotic, they were feeding the bear marshmallows and then put the empty bag in the stroller with the kid. Point to that one is, the bear could've dropped the kid, but didn't. Overall though, I don't worry much about bears. A few precautions and that's it.
              Black bears are more prone to stalk than brown/grizzly bears. Grizzlies it's generally you inadvertantly crossing paths with them. Black bears tend to seek out humans. And as noted above finish the fight.

              This is of course contrary to what most movies show where the grizzly stalks humans (what was that anthony hopkins movie?? as an example) and black bears are cute and cuddly.

              My brother takes his 9mm in when we go to the "problem" areas, basically the colden area or lowlands in NH. The 9mm 124g hollow points are supposed to stop a person in a single well placed shot. Figure a clip of 17 should slow a bear down assuming 50% hit something. A bear is a lot bigger target than a person so...If not you are in no worse shape than before anyway.

              Maybe I'm being generous.

              Anyway, we aren't typically to worried about an attack so much as not having breakfast in the morning. Being hungry can ruin a good trip.
              sigpic

              "As to every healthy boy with a taste for outdoor life, the northern forest -the Adirondacks- were to me a veritable land of enchantment." -Theodore Roosevelt

              Mountain Visions: The Wilderness Through My Eyes

              Comment

              • redhawk
                Senior Resident Curmudgeon
                • Jan 2004
                • 10929

                #8
                Originally posted by pico23

                My brother takes his 9mm in when we go to the "problem" areas, basically the colden area or lowlands in NH. The 9mm 124g hollow points are supposed to stop a person in a single well placed shot. Figure a clip of 17 should slow a bear down assuming 50% hit something. A bear is a lot bigger target than a person so...If not you are in no worse shape than before anyway.

                Maybe I'm being generous.
                Most bear encounters happen within a few seconds. The person suddenly comes upon the bear without warning from less then 20 feet away. if the bear charges you have about 10 seconds to draw the gun, aim, fire and hit the bear in a spot to stop it before it's on top of you. Bear charges head down, presenting a small, hard moving target which a bullet is more likely to bounce off of then even make it think about it. And thats assuming that you are a crack shot and remain cool during the bears charge.

                On the other hand, bear spray, clipped to your shoulder straps, takes about 3 seconds to unclip and discharge. Most bear sprays legal in Western States (the ones that are "legal" in NY are weaker) will stop a bear in it's tracks.

                Speaking for myself, I'm cool under fire, I was an expert marksman in the service (rifle & pistol) and I'll take bear spray over bullets every time. Guns are effective when one is hunting bears but not for surprise encounters.

                Do a little research on the net about bear encounters and guns (not hunting) and bear encounters and spray.

                Then you'll understand why the bear experts recommend the latter and why it's mandatory that you carry bear spray in many places in the western states.
                "If future generations are to remember us with gratitude rather than contempt, we must leave them more than the miracles of technology. We must leave them a glimpse of the world as it was in the beginning, not just after we got through with it." Lyndon B. Johnson

                Comment

                • Neil
                  Admin

                  • May 2004
                  • 6129

                  #9
                  Originally posted by pico23
                  My brother takes his 9mm in when we go to the "problem" areas, basically the colden area or lowlands in NH. The 9mm 124g hollow points are supposed to stop a person in a single well placed shot. Figure a clip of 17 should slow a bear down assuming 50% hit something. A bear is a lot bigger target than a person so...If not you are in no worse shape than before anyway.
                  In a high-use area such as Lake Colden where would the stray bullets go?
                  The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                  Comment

                  • Lute Hawkins
                    Member
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 501

                    #10
                    Unless they embed in their target, they'll either lodge into a tree or eventually land on the ground due to gravity.

                    Comment

                    • chairrock
                      Indian Mt.Club
                      • Oct 2006
                      • 2714

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Lute Hawkins
                      Unless they embed in their target, they'll either lodge into a tree or eventually land on the ground due to gravity.
                      Lute,
                      I need help in marketting my new line of kevlar hiking gear. I have plans drawn up for everything fom underwear to parkers. Some of the lines will include backpacks and tents. What colors do you think will sell? I know the LNT people call for earth tones but I was wondering about some Unisex pastels? I thought you might be a big help since you marketed those cheese holes and patches things....
                      Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

                      When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
                      Henry David Thoreau

                      CL50-#23

                      Comment

                      • Neil
                        Admin

                        • May 2004
                        • 6129

                        #12
                        I feel a wee bit uncomfortable with the idea of stray bullets zinging around.

                        Maybe I should wear a different shirt than my usual one shown here:


















                        The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                        Comment

                        • chairrock
                          Indian Mt.Club
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 2714

                          #13
                          Neil,
                          You shouldn't have any trouble with stray bullets with that shirt from any of the Allies. It is not a target but rather the ROYAL AIR FORCE ROUNDEL. If there are some colonials around I might worry tho, or terrorists....

                          We can make it in Kevlar tho if interested please send cash...
                          Be careful, don't spread invasive species!!

                          When a dog runs at you,whistle for him.
                          Henry David Thoreau

                          CL50-#23

                          Comment

                          • Neil
                            Admin

                            • May 2004
                            • 6129

                            #14
                            Originally posted by chairrock
                            Neil,
                            You shouldn't have any trouble with stray bullets with that shirt from any of the Allies. It is not a target but rather the ROYAL AIR FORCE ROUNDEL.
                            Ohhhh, now I know why I've never caught any lead while bushwhacking in hunting season. Lucked out on the Roundel I guess.

                            As for spray vs. bullets goes I would choose spray any day. I don't think I could throw a bullet hard enough to stop a charging bear.
                            The best, the most successful adventurer, is the one having the most fun.

                            Comment

                            • DRIFTER
                              .
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 897

                              #15
                              .......I believe whatever you choose gun or spray, it would depend on whose hands it's in! I've seen people get nervous when approached by a squirrel much less a bear and it would be the same outcome if you missed with spray or a gun! As for using a gun, a 12 gauge shotgun using a proper load would definitely turn a bear away.....

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