Double boots

[aviarome]

I'm interested in buying a pair of double boots and was hoping someone may answer my question: How should these boots fit? Should room in the toebox and heel be similar in double boots as when fitting for summer backpacking boots? Or is there a different approach? How about movement, concerns about the liner sliding, etc? Do people commonly buy a half size up?

Unfortunately, I haven't found a store that carries double boots where I live, but I saw some sales online and was thinking about buying them, trying them on, and returning them if they did not fit. A bit inconvenient, but I think that's manageable. Thanks for the help.

[fvrwld]

Double boots??
Enlighten me please.

[mike1889]

Double boots??
Enlighten me please.

Double boots are winter mountaineering boots such as Koflach or Scarpa. They have a liner that can be removed and dried and look a lot like downhill ski boots. The outer boot is plastic and waterproof. I had a pair of Scarpas and did not like them. They hurt my feet and I got blisters.

[fvrwld]

What are the benefits of these over pac boots? Warmer? More nimble?

[Adk Keith]

The soles are rigid so crampons attach easier and you can tour and parrallel ski with AT (alpine touring) bindings.

[Rick]

FWIW, I had a pair of Koflach VarioSoft for about 4 years. I finally sold them in 2000 because I realized I was torturing myself with every winter trip. My problem is wide feet - I would get awful blisters on the outsides of my feet by little toe, as well as just behind the big toe, where the foot protrudes slightly.

Pro's
Many mountaineers swear by the double boot - For those with regular feet, it is probably a godsend. They are warm and waterproof (Keep in mind though that much moisture is from perspiration and a VBL oversock is a necessity) and protect your feet immensely. They also allow you to kick at ice and give you a platform to stand on when climbing over ice.

Also, Double boots protect your feet against crampon & snowshoe straps, (unless you have step-ins), as you probably know, PAC boots uppers are very soft and by tightening the old style crampons, you risk cutting some circulation to your toes/ankles (or risk stepping out of them once in a while) and that they loosen up constantly is annoying.

Con's

Double boots don't give. While the inside foam-like liners are very flexible, the wrong style feet can feel like hamburger in them. Double boots are heavy as well, but they have a rockered sole, making walking a bit easier, though there is little flex in the ankles and you sometimes feel like frankenstein when walking.

I do like my sorels - Some folks don't like the soft form of the Sorel, but I like that I can flex my foot in them. Also, my Grivel G-10's are the best of both worlds for crampons they are step in like simlicity and have straps for bvoot versatility -they are, however the old style from when there was a bolt in the back that would constantly scratch against your boot heel and eventually damage the boot.

Hope this helps
Rick

[redhawk]

Oh Gawd......OOOOOOHHH I Love it when you talk Techie!!!

[fvrwld]

Well...consider me enlightened. Thanks.

I really like my NorthFace Chilkats. They are pacboots but much less clumsey than other pacboots I have used. They seem to work perfectly with my Atlas snowshoes. They even have that little lip in the back so the strap doesn't slip off and a loop in the front to hook the gators down. I have never used crampons with them.
I also have Rocky Juneau Pacs that I use for ice fishing.They are extremely warm but would be useless for hiking/snowshoeing.

[shadowcat10]

Double Boots

you don't state what type of hiking / winter activities you'll be doing so i 'm not sure why you feel you need double or plastic boots. i think that a lot of folks think that plastic boots are the only ones that will keep your feet warm. they do of course but in the last several yrs they've made great strides in boots and features. if you are going to be using them for winter hiking around here; with crampon use and also want to use them for snowshoeing, i wouldn't recommend plastic. first they are expensive, if you find a pr on sale, and you can get them on sale for $75, they will most likely be an older model, which will probably the heavier ones. newer plastics are lighter but still heavier than "most" other boots and remember they are totally stiff! no flex at all in the ankle and that's for the ice climbing/mountaineering use. there's a lot of really good highly insulated winter boots available these days that won't cost you a fortune. i have the merrell winterras which are rated to -20. i wore them all last winter on long day hikes and snowshoeing and if you recall it was darn cold last winter. my feet never got cold. this particular one doesn't have the crampon lip but i used a pr of universal crampons when need and they worked just fine. the merrels can be purchased for around $100 or so on sites like: shoebuy.com. also Cabela's has winter boots rated to -40 and even -100 ! and they are all around $100 or less! if you must have plastic, ck places like: sierratradingpost.com and livetoplay.com, they often have some super deals. or maybe you can buy a pr of used "rentals" from the mountaineer up in keene.

[Jeff]

I read this thread once. Thought about it. Read it again. And thought some more. Why don't people wear snowmobile boots? You know, snow boots, like when you were a kid. They have the removable felt liner to ease drying(if you get them wet). They are flexible. They work with snowshoes(from experience). They are warm. As shadowcat said, "...it was darn cold last winter". Yes it was. And my snowmobile boots held up great on all fronts. And get this, they were cheap. Dirt cheap! I think my wife paid $20 for them at K-mart. Seriously, I was dead set against getting them. Why should I, I thought. I have my La Sportiva Mountaineering boots! HA! They're not as warm or comfy as those stupid cheap boots, for winter anyhow. Who woulda thunk?! Things that make you go, hmmm?.

[Rick]

Jeff, I have wondered that very same question in the past. There were 2 theories I cold come up with.

1 - The construction on them may be less durable. I beleive the boots were made more for sitting on a sled than for serious amounts of winter walking and might deconstruct quickly over time.
2-I wondeer if there isn't some snob factor in here somewhere. I beleive folks want to look like their sport and somehow snowmobile boots might not cut it completely?
Though, in retrospect, the ultalight movement has been more away from fashion and purely into function - pepsi can alcohol stoves, $6 Walmart grease pots as cooking pots, country-time plastic containers wrapped in foam as mugs, ....