WARNING: Nalgene may be Harmful

[Jeff]

It has been brought to my attention that Nalgene could pose possible health risks in pregnant women and in young children and possibly men as well.

Please make an informed personal opinion for yourselves by checking out the links below.

Disclaimer: We at the ADK Forum make no claim that any evidence is in fact proof that any of the information about Nalgene or any related Lexan products are true.

Hazards of Hydration by Sierra Club
Environmental Health Sciences
Nalgene

[redhawk]

That is no new thing.

That tail has been wagged for a few years. The whole story is in fact "conjecture", a sort of "could be the culpret" scenerio.

There are many things that are made up of materials or ingredients that are in another form or combination toxic.

For example both Sodium (Na)and Cloride (Cl)are by themselves extremely deadly if consumed. However, combine them in equal parts (NaCl)and you have one of the most common and most consumed ingredients used by humans Salt.

I have a lot more faith in the Nalgene then I do many of the people researching all the "causes" of everything else. In fact I am beginning to think that doing scientific research for consumer safety causes brain cancer in humans. I think I'll see if I can get a government grant to research that theory.

[Kevin]

Redhawk, while you're analogy to salt makes sense, the study being cited here is one where test animals were linked to leeched elements from the plastic. My only contention from the reading was whether exposure to just water will leech enough or any of the toxin that caused sterility and other issues in the rats.

[redhawk]

Redhawk, while you're analogy to salt makes sense, the study being cited here is one where test animals were linked to leeched elements from the plastic. My only contention from the reading was whether exposure to just water will leech enough or any of the toxin that caused sterility and other issues in the rats.

There is an amazing thing about studies. Two people on the very opposite ends of the spectrum can conduct a study on the exact same thing using the exact same facts and come up with completely different conclusions which co-incidently always seems to support the theory that the researcher had to begin with.

When researchers "research" they usually set the conditions to be as favorable to the results they want to achieve and often the real truth is lost along the way.

I look at all the "science" that "researchers" used, and the "facts" they came up with in my lifetime, consider this.

Butter is much more harmful to your health then Oleomargerine" DEBUNKED in the 90's.

Dr Benjamin Spock apologized in the late 90's for his book on baby care, which he said was in most cases wrong.

Many of the drugs that were deemed "safe", wern't and aren't.

Ponder the fact that until one brave soul ate tomato's in public around 1870, they were considered poisionous because they were a member of the mandrake or nightshade family.

To my knowledge, no researcher has been able to directly link Nalgene bottles with any problems in anyones health.

I am sure that as you go through all the "facts" presented by either side, those "facts" will support the argument of the person citing the facts.

[Mavs00]

To my knowledge, no researcher has been able to directly link Nalgene bottles with any problems in anyones health.

I'm with Redhawk on this one. Look closely at the studies and the information about it on Nalge Nunc International's website.

I understand that evidence presented show's the study that found problems with Nalge bottles was partially funded and solicited by "Animal Rights" groups that have long hounded (and attempted to boycott) Nalge for its animal testing policies. That already sounds pretty "biased" and questionable right from the start. Plus even those studies only show marginal links to "sterility" in rodents and NO HUMAN crossover health effects have been documented.

Anyone can present or skew results of field testing to thier own "ideal" event. Take this study, Animal rights people can say "see, this stuff is harmful (in rodents)" while Nalge can easily "There is no documented problems in HUMANS with these products". Either position supports the postion of the group saying it. But there is only one set of resul that each position was hatched from. Take whatever postion you want, I ain't throwing my sizable Nalgene bottle collection away. In fact I be happy to take your if "you don't want to be poisoned.

[Kevin]

I'm in agreement that I won't be throwing anything away anytime soon, but it does raise a good question - will simply using a Nalgene, as we do, present a situation in which any leeching of this toxin could occur? In their study there was a cleansing chemical used in the plastic cages that triggered the release of the toxin that was absorbed by the rats in the cage. Since we're not using those chemicals to clean our Nalgenes, we are not likely to see the effects documented.

[redhawk]

Sure and if you add ammonia to beach water to clean anything, you release chlorine gas which can be fatal. Thats my point with the studies.

I'm not getting rid of my nalgies either. Maybe I'll do my own study.

lets see, first I have to get someone pregnant.............hmm!

[lumberzac]

I guess I'm safe since I use a Platypus.

[Jeff]

They were using chlorine bleach to clean the cages which resulted in the leeching of chemicals. There is chlorine in your city tap water. The Nalgene fades, where is the color and the durability/resiliency going to? Do we do actual tests on humans to find if it's true, that this process really is producing birth defects and sterility? I would personally not really find out that that is the case. How do you test to find that out. One woman reported that she had a child with downs syndrome. She said she religiously uses nalgene for drinking water. ??? What if it's true? What is said then, Oops?
Just food for thought. That is why I provided links for the pros and cons. Evidently some people have already drawn their own conclusions.

And Hawk, If the reasearch is done by an independant facilty or study group, the results/finds are unbiased. That is true scientific research. I took physics labs in college and you base your findings on facts, NOT conjecture. You don't have and end result to look for. You create or recreate a situation or condition and record the findings from there. Sodium Chloride is safe, true? Because it is a completely different chemical compound. H2O. We don't go around breathing it, but HEY it's got 2 parts of oxygen, must be better for breathing?

Of course Nalgene is going to say that their bottles are safe. What would that do to sales, not to mention lawsuits up the yin yang! Baby bottles that were made of the same material can no longer be found on the shelves of stores all of a sudden. Why not? Was there a manufacturing defect? Did they cost to much to make and sell? Or did they pose a health risk?

Jeff sings to himself "Things that make me go hmmm hmmm hmmm, things that make me go hmmm."

I'm to cheap to go out and buy more gear at this point and time, so I'm going to hold on to my bottles. Besides, one is a pee bottle for those lovely winter nights when I don't want to crawl out of my sleeping bag :drink: CRAP, wrong bottle! . The other I usually don't end up using because I always buy a huge bottle/s of spring water when I get on the road. And when I get into camp I usually pump into a large dromedary bag or something of the sort anyhow, so... Besides I don't think you have to worry abot spring water or pumped water, only detergents used at home for cleaning them. And the people who are making the claim tell you not to use harsh cleaning chemicals, only soap and warm water.

I too am keeping my nalgene, But I won't let my wife or child use them!

[redhawk]

They were using chlorine bleach to clean the cages which resulted in the leeching of chemicals. There is chlorine in your city tap water. The Nalgene fades, where is the color and the durability/resiliency going to? Do we do actual tests on humans to find if it's true, that this process really is producing birth defects and sterility? I would personally not really find out that that is the case. How do you test to find that out. One woman reported that she had a child with downs syndrome. She said she religiously uses nalgene for drinking water. ??? What if it's true? What is said then, Oops?
Just food for thought. That is why I provided links for the pros and cons. Evidently some people have already drawn their own conclusions.

And Hawk, If the reasearch is done by an independant facilty or study group, the results/finds are unbiased. That is true scientific research. I took physics labs in college and you base your findings on facts, NOT conjecture. You don't have and end result to look for. You create or recreate a situation or condition and record the findings from there. Sodium Chloride is safe, true? Because it is a completely different chemical compound. H2O. We don't go around breathing it, but HEY it's got 2 parts of oxygen, must be better for breathing?

Of course Nalgene is going to say that their bottles are safe. What would that do to sales, not to mention lawsuits up the yin yang! Baby bottles that were made of the same material can no longer be found on the shelves of stores all of a sudden. Why not? Was there a manufacturing defect? Did they cost to much to make and sell? Or did they pose a health risk?

Jeff sings to himself "Things that make me go hmmm hmmm hmmm, things that make me go hmmm."

I'm to cheap to go out and buy more gear at this point and time, so I'm going to hold on to my bottles. Besides, one is a pee bottle for those lovely winter nights when I don't want to crawl out of my sleeping bag :drink: CRAP, wrong bottle! . The other I usually don't end up using because I always buy a huge bottle/s of spring water when I get on the road. And when I get into camp I usually pump into a large dromedary bag or something of the sort anyhow, so... Besides I don't think you have to worry abot spring water or pumped water, only detergents used at home for cleaning them. And the people who are making the claim tell you not to use harsh cleaning chemicals, only soap and warm water.

I too am keeping my nalgene, But I won't let my wife or child use them!

First. Mani has a granddaughter with Downs Syndrome,. Angie has never used a Nalgene in her life.

"Independent" doesn't always mean it is so. many of the studies are Financed by third parties who have a specific interest, political, moral or financial, in the results. Oddly enough the "facts" always seem to support their cause. (If it doesn't the funding gets cut off.

All I am saying is that you have to check all the data from all the sources, try to figure who does and doesn't have an agenda and who is truly independent.

The other thing is that there are many other manufactured bottles made of Lexan and the same materials that Nalgene uses. Nalgene is just the largest.

I am curious, do they mention that or are they specific against nalgene.

[Jeff]

It was a specific type of material, because Nalgene makes some other plastic products that are not a polycarbonate that do not have that particular problem, it was the particular material itself.

And they were not trying to say that only that material is the only thing responsible for downs syndrome, but that that is one of the possible side effects caused by that particular leeched chemical from a polycarbonate plastic. It mimics estrogen that introduces a third chromosone 21 which can cause downs syndrome and other problems as well.

It's not that they are targeting the company. They appear to be genuinely concerned that the leading plastic drink container is made from that particular material. If Nalgene wishes to make their other water bottles the top item, the researchers seem to be all for it.

On the bottom of all plastic containers you will find a mark that contains a number which refers to the particular material from which the item is made.
That nalgene bottle of concern has a #7 PC (polycarbonate) which they are saying is the culprit. Other materials which they are saying are safer to use are #2 HDPE (High Density Polyethylene), #4 LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene), and #5 PP (Polypropylene). Nalgene makes a #2 HDPE bottle identical in size and shape to the popular lexan model.

You have the option, but I personally like the durability of the popular lexan model for its high resiliency in extreme high and extreme low temperatures. It's a great product. That is why everyone loves it so much. And look at all the cool shapes and colors it comes in now. Pretty clever.

Overall, a great product. Just not sure about the possibility of the leeching.

[Dave K]

They discuss polycarbonate bottles in general... and it seems that it takes external chemicals to cause the lexan to release BHP, basically you shouldn't use bleach on your bottle.

The research doesn't have the typical hallmarks of crap science... but sometimes it's hard to tell. As with many of these sorts of proclamations, I take them with a bit more than a grain of salt... but not much more. If my wife was pregnant I'd tell her to make sure not to use the nalgene... because it's not worth the risk. Otherwise I'm not particularly worried.

I think the research system in this country is somewhat broken... researchers don't get the acclaim, peer recognition, and most of all... MONEY... if they don't come up with explosive results. "Causes Cancer" is one of those explosive results... "Birth Defects" is just as big.