External vs Internal Frame

[GSLgal]

Done lots of hiking and car camping and am ready to step up to backpacking..so now I need a pack. But I'm confused...everything I read seems to point to external frames being more user friendly (pockets, getting at your stuff, not having to balance the weight so carefully, etc) so why do most people seem to use internal frames? I must be missing something. Opinions and advice would be much appreciated!

[Gray Ghost]

Based on my personal experience, internal frames are more comfortable. I have an EMS internal frame pack and a Kelty external frame pack. The only time I use the external frame is for portaging my Hornbeck. I use the internal frame for everything else, and there are plenty of pockets in the thing. My Kelty is a bit older so maybe that's why it's not as comfy. One last note is that you can order different straps, etc. for an external frame and alter it...which is something I guess I should do! So that would be an advantage of externals. Someone else may be able to provide more input.

[Judgeh]

I agree with Gray Ghost. I've used both. The internal bag gives me more of a feel that we're "one". It moves with me and I often forget it's on my back (and it's a big bag). I never felt as comfortable with my now retired external pack.

[Dick]

I have heard that, for a time, there was a sense that internals were "in" (whatever that means). Generally they do different jobs. Externals, generically speaking, were/are great for hauling heavier loads on trails, have lots of bells and whistles, and cost less (variable!). Internals were better for off-trail, skiing, etc. because, as Judgeh said, you're "one with the pack." They tended to be hotter on the back, are often less adjustable, and they required more careful packing. Improvements and changes over the years in both I and E frames may have blurred some of these issues somewhat. Nevertheless, for climbing/off-trail, an I-frame is probably the way to go. That said, I once used an E-frame off-trail for a 23-mile bushwack, with no problems whatsover. Not all packs will fit all torsos. The best advice I can think of at the moment is to consider your largest use of the pack, and try several brands and models packs on of various I and E frames, and see what works for you. By that, I mean haul some of the heavier items of your camping gear into a store and compare. The "deadmen" bags filled with sand that the store uses to add weight to the pack will give some indication, but your own gear will tell you best how it will ride. It's not easy, as most stores carry only a fraction of packs that are out there. Be sure you're not comparing apples and oranges (I-frame of one brand vs. E-frame of another).

Dick

[Wildernessphoto]

Based on my personal experience, internal frames are more comfortable. I have an EMS internal frame pack and a Kelty external frame pack. The only time I use the external frame is for portaging my Hornbeck. I use the internal frame for everything else, and there are plenty of pockets in the thing. My Kelty is a bit older so maybe that's why it's not as comfy. One last note is that you can order different straps, etc. for an external frame and alter it...which is something I guess I should do! So that would be an advantage of externals. Someone else may be able to provide more input.

All good points...
Different people use different packs for different purposes. Like GG I use my external to portage my Hornbeck and dry bags, like the photo below, but I like my internal frame better for general hiking. I use a 7000ci EMS for the trail.
-Gary-

[Wldrns]

The only time I use the external frame is for portaging my Hornbeck.

I also use an external frame pack to carry my Hornbeck. I have a rigid mount for the canoe, and everything from my waist up, including the canoe moves as one rigid unit. That makes it good for hands free parting of brush in rough terrain or crawling over blowdown without the canoe flopping everywhere.

I'm usually with the canoe, so I don't use my internal frame pack nearly as much. However it does allow more body flex and is narrower for easier passage between closely spaced trees, important off trail.

Whichever design you choose, make sure it fits well and you know how to properly adjust the straps. Comfort of the hip belt is particularly important. If there is a lumbar pad, make sure it is not overly thick or soft. If it is then you will not be able to properly tighten the hip belt to stay up under a heavy load. I had a MountainSmith pack with that problem. When I wrote to tell the company of the problem I got a nice response back acknowledging my observation, saying the pad had been redesigned in a newer model. I was stuck with what I had.

On the other extreme from my Hornbeck, I've also solo carried a war canoe on a Knupac external frame pack, but not very far.

[Judgeh]

It would appear, Gary that you could still catch a tan under that "see-thru" hull of yours!

[what'sinaname]

I'd tend to agree with most of what is said above. It depends on what you're doing and more importantly how the bag/harness fit. I've used one external and two different internal frame packs now (over 15 years). Although I love my internal frame (Jack Wolfskin, a women's model), the only reason I gave up the external frame (a really cheap, nylon one) was the fit--not that the internal provides more "features".

Dick provides some excellent advise: you have to find what works for you.
Chris

[Cold River Bob]

I have two Dana design external packs, Before I bought one I went to Mountian man sports in Inlet, They loaded up both packs internal, external with gear and they helped me adjust them to me, The inernal felt good but it was hot and din;t let enough air between me and the pack, The external did and I found I could walk upright instead of bent over, I do quiet a lot of bushwacking with it and haven't had any problems going threw brush, This is what works for me, Like Dick said try both and see what works for you,

[hikercop45]

Being Mr Comfort on the trial, I use an external frame MOST of the time - I have extra room to strap "stuff" on.
I like my internal frame for short trips and fishing trips = it stays close to me and it doesnt get in the way - either way - Im in the woods and happy as a hog in mud.....

[AntlerPerak]

I have a Kelty external frame that is twenty five years and is still in excellent shape. A few years back I bought a Kelty internal frame. I have to weigh in on the side of the external because of the frame you don't have to be so critical about balance. It took quite awhile to get the internal to balance right for me. I also found it more difficult to get at things and missed being able to lash "junk" on the frame. With that said the internals have their advantages.

A few years ago my buddy and I went on a two week backpacking trip to the Cascades. That wonderful internal frame fit nicely into the overhead bay. Get off the plane, toss the puppy into the rental car and step out onto the trail ready to hike, just awesome.

[GSLgal]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'll just have to go try some on... but at least I feel armed with good information now.

[kwc]

one more thing ...

Thanks for all the input everyone! I'll just have to go try some on... but at least I feel armed with good information now.

go visit EMS or a similar store, and have a staff person fit you. when I went looking for a new pack a couple years ago, EMS (Saratoga) measured my torso (they have this measuring gizmo), and then I tried on several packs ... they will load the packs with some weighted items for you and then you'll get an idea of what the pack will feel like with some stuff packed in it. Some (but not all) of the internal frame packs come in different sizes, and you can swap belts as well (maybe you need a medium pack but only a small belt, for example) ... it all depends on the manufacturer. EMS also has that set of stairs over by their shoe section, and I'd try walking up and down those steps with the 'loaded' packs ... it'll give you an idea of what it feels like to climb or descend with that pack on your back. Don't be afraid to ask questions of the staff person too ...

[mtneqgurl]

Be sure to visit a shop that will measure and fit you - my partner and I are the same height, but my torso length is 13+, while his is over 19. I'm miserable in his pack! Also, the point where the shoulder straps attach, on either internal or external is important for a woman's fit, as is the width of the shoulder straps. Eventually, you'll probably own one of each!

[Boreal Chickadee]

I really like my external pack. A very old Kelty. I had to get my son an external pack last year and found a real good price on a new Kelty for him. I ordered myself a new one also because the padding has been greatly improved in the last quarter century +. We portaged a 14 foot canoe on our externals last year for several trips, one quite long. Worked like a dream.


Just ordered us REI internal ultralights. Capacity less than 3000 ci but they were only $30 each and weigh practically nothing. I got them mostly for cold weather day hikes when I just need lots of capaciaty for bulky but lightweight extra clothing.