Winter Sleeping Bag Advice

[mtn.goat]

I am currently acquiring/researching the winter gear i will need for backpacking in the whites/adk's this coming winter and had a few questions. I've already searched through the forum to try and make sure I don't ask a question that has already been answered.

I have pretty much made up my mind to go with Feathered Friends due to the customizability factor and positive reviews that I've heard but am having a problem figuring out what type of fabric and bag to get. I am a warm sleeper (almost downright hot) and was wondering if a Widgeon (-10 rating) with 800 fill down and 2-4 ounces of overfill would be fine for the -20 to -25 max low temps I expect to see (correct me if I'm wrong on these temp numbers) or should I go with the Peregrine due to it's extra girth (and -20 rating)? Which fabric breathes better and would be more durable... EPIC or eVent? I just don't want to get a bag with a rating for such an extreme temp that I am hot all the time. Thanks for any advice that you can provide me with.

[mediclimber]

I'm a firm believer in synthetics and use a Mountain Hardwear third demension bag for winter. It's good to -15 and then some for me as I am a warm sleeper. It also has the advantage of a built-in expander. The weight isn't bad and it can save you a few bucks too.

[eghaley]

Unless you're going for only one or two nights, forget about feathers. You're much better backpacking in the ADKs with synthetic fibers. Once feathers get wet, they stay wet where synthetic can dry out quickly.

I used a Snow Lion Mountain Lion Super mummy bag for about 10 years before it gave up the ghost from wear and tear. It was made of polarguard fill and rated for about minus 5F if I remember right. It was warm as toast under all conditions that we encountered even down to minus 55F while camping in the Phelps leanto in Jan 1977 or 1978. BUT .... you have to get in the bag without your hiking clothes and only use a WOOL union suit. If you go to bed with all your clothes on I guarantee you'll be cold. Let the sleeping bag do its job and keep your body heat close to your skin without clothes inbetween.

A good wool union suit (full body) can be put on when you start camping and not taken off until you get home after the hike. Hike in it, sleep in it and make love in it - it's an all-round garment.

[Neil]

I agree with your advice about the union suit except I'd use polypro. I also agree with the synth vs. down except (am I a pain in the ass or what?) I do think lighter weight down would be OK if you used a vapour barrier liner.

One last thing, consuming a pound of meat just before turning in will increase your bag's range by about 10 degrees. Try it, you'll like it.

[sacco]

if you do some searching on this site you'll find some good threads discussing pros and cons of sleeping bags, quilts, down and synthetics.

here's a short(ish) summary of my thoughts:

i love my home-made down quilt-bag.

if you don't wanna take the time or the effort to make your own, i suggest buying a down quilt-bag.

bags vs. quilts

the bottom half of your bag is useless. it doesn't provide a stitch of insulation. why lug it around?

down vs. synthetic

when's the last time you slept in a wet sleeping bag?
i don't care what your sleeping bag is made out of- you're not sleeping in it if it's wet.
so
1) keep it dry. period. double bag it. triple bag it. whatever. just keep it dry. garbage bags and silnylon bags weigh nothing.
2) if it does get wet then start hiking out. synthetic, down, whatever. you just ruined your trip so start hiking out.


as far temp* rating

i wouldn't go to extreme with the bag.
a 0* bag is much more versatile and cheaper. get a silk liner. you'll add 10* right there. a fleece that'll give ya another 5* at least. if it's really, cold (like -30) then ya throw on the whole union suit deal. if it's colder than -30 stay home and watch football.

[sacco]

http://www.adkforum.com/showthread.php?p=15044#post15044

[redhawk]

I agree with your advice about the union suit except I'd use polypro. I also agree with the synth vs. down except (am I a pain in the ass or what?) I do think lighter weight down would be OK if you used a vapour barrier liner.

One last thing, consuming a pound of meat just before turning in will increase your bag's range by about 10 degrees. Try it, you'll like it.

The vapor barrier liner is more apt to cause perspiration and condensation in the bag.

[sacco]

epic vs event

personally, i don't think there's much difference in performance.

[ken999]

The bottom half of a bag is not totally useless, especially for a winter bag. The bottom seals out drafts while tossing and turning.

An roomy bag for winter application is not a bad idea if you intend to wear clothing in the bag. The trick is to not have the bag be too constrictive or too roomy...

[sacco]

The bottom half of a bag is not totally useless, especially for a winter bag. The bottom seals out drafts while tossing and turning.

the sides keep out the drafts.

the bottom just holds the sides together.
the bottom of the bag can be replaced with two 10 cent, 1/2 oz. elastic bands.

[ken999]

True winter bags (rated for less than 0) have bottoms. I have yet to see a quilt rated for below zero. I think that speaks volumes about the usefullness of a bags bottom for winter conditions.

In no way am I trying to say that quilts will not work. I realize you have had great success with yours. I do think that they have their limits...I could be wrong on this but I find it odd that there are few (if any) quilts with a -40 temp rating...must be the bag manufacturers have a reason for this.

As an aside...I spent some time with a wet bag this spring...I didn't have any trouble nor did I have to go home.

Synthetics have there place (at least in my gear closet...)

[ken999]

...I take that back...somewhat...Big Agnes has a -20 Quallofill bag/quilt rated for -20...bag weighs 7 lbs 2 oz., pad weighs 74 oz...

...ouch...

[ken999]

Goat- Here's some info on the epic/event question...

http://textileinfo.com/en/manage/ronten/cotton/page01.html

Not sure if it helps, but....

[Neil]

The vapor barrier liner is more apt to cause perspiration and condensation in the bag.

That's exactly what I thought it would do and I was amazed at how dry I was. I wore polyprope top and bottom and the liner was inside the bag. Even after 4 nights with the same setup everything: me, my polyprope pj's and my down bag were dry. (The temps were about 0 deg F.)

[sacco]

neil, sounds like you had the perfect system and conditions for a VB.

inside a vapor barrier as conditions become more humid you will sweat, but b/c of the wicking properties of polypro it should migrate to outside the polypro.

ideally, as your metabolism slows down as you rest, your skin also senses the high humidity conditions inside your "cocoon" and dramatically lowers the amount of moisture you put out through the night.